Canucks, woulda, coulda, shoulda 24-25

Moderator: the Cunning Linguist

Post Reply
Fogghorn
Mensa of the board
Posts: 5625
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:47 am

Re: Canucks, woulda, coulda, shoulda 24-25

Post by Fogghorn »

There has been so much back and forth about what Zadorov was offered, but if rumours were true that he was offered the same 6 x $6 mil that Boston was offered than the 3Petey deal is so good. Zadorov is a #4 or #5 dman. He was great in the playoffs, and a fun quote for the fans, and apparently well respected in the locker room. Still 3Petey is legit #3 dman, who will make even someone like Meyers look okay in the #4 spot. 6 years at $5.5 million seems like a bit of a steal, especially since it has 15 team trade option in the last 3 years.
Shoresy, "It's called a sweater"
Fogghorn
Mensa of the board
Posts: 5625
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:47 am

Re: Canucks, woulda, coulda, shoulda 24-25

Post by Fogghorn »

So Brad Richardson has spoken up about his exit interview with Alivin in 2022. Said he knew it was the end of his career so no reason not to be honest.
“I love JT Miller. He’s a great guy. I’d take him on my team,” Richardson said on the podcast. “But I told [Allvin], you’ve got to surround a guy like JT Miller with veteran players, or you’re going to be f–ked.

“That’s how you calm JT Miller down. You’ve got to have a veteran group that knows how to settle him down at the right times when he gets a little off the rails because he does. If you get him dialed in, he’s an unbelievable player, and he’s a great guy, but he needs veteran guys around him, or he gets squirrely.”
This is not a team loaded with vets, nor the direction that the Canucks were headed in 2023. Alvin knew about the issues with Miller and EP40 but instead chose to trade Horvat. I was definitely against this trade at the time, had seen way to much of Miller sulking and not playing defence when he got his emotions out of whack. But then that season overall made it look like a good decision........and then there was this season. In retrospect Alvin knew of Miller's issues and made the wrong trade.

I have to think Miller would have gotten the same return as Horvat, actually probably a bit better. And honestly as Pittsburgh is looking at a rebuild I'd think Hoglander, DPetey and perhaps a 3rd round pick gets them 3Petey.

We'd have pretty much the same team minus Hoglander and Chytil but with Horvat playing #1 centre position. That is a very, very good team.
Shoresy, "It's called a sweater"
Fogghorn
Mensa of the board
Posts: 5625
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:47 am

Re: Canucks, woulda, coulda, shoulda 24-25

Post by Fogghorn »

So I looked over this years FA centre crop and its weak, no help there. EP40 is still a question, his foot speed and shot speed still like 85% of what they were two season ago, something has happened to him and he is not fully healed, and will he ever fully heal, or be able to adjust his game to compensate? If not then his future is as a #2 centre, not a great #1 centre.

As I mentioned previously, the team has a lot of cap room but aren't going to be able to spend on what they need for a FA upgrade. Looked at older teams, falling out of contention who may want to part with veteran centres for youth and came up with a list of TB, Isles, Pittsburg, Nashville, St Louis, Phili and threw in the Kraken cause I have no idea what their aims are. Out of them, only Horvat and Crosby seem appealing.

So is Crosby interested in pulling a Jerome Inginla and spending his last few season search for one more cup? If so that's the move to make. Would Horvat be willing to come back? and if so what Alvin be okay with openly taking a pie in the face, correcting his mistake, if it makes the team better? I would hope so but you know............ego often gets in the way.

The other option is there an up and coming team that has all the pieces that would need an upgrade in goal and willing to surrender a 23-25 year old #2 centre? I now consider Demko a possible trade piece, for the right centre, but that seems unlikely and probably unrealistic but sometimes teams get desperate for quality goalies.
Shoresy, "It's called a sweater"
Fogghorn
Mensa of the board
Posts: 5625
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:47 am

Re: Canucks, woulda, coulda, shoulda 24-25

Post by Fogghorn »

So I thought this Drew O'Connor guy was just a toss in on the trade. He might be a lot more than that.

6'4" 209 lbs, but fast. NHL Edge show his top speed at the 90th percentile and top burst speed at the 96%. He is 26 years old and that would indicate he should normally not improve his game much beyond where it is at, but he's always been slow to develop and stills seems like he is improving. He's spend his previous summers working on finishing his degree, I'm hoping now that is done he'll have time to work more in developing other parts of his game like his shot speed which is below the 50th percentile.

However that big, that fast a game winner last night, and an empty netter vs Colorado he's off to a good start.
Shoresy, "It's called a sweater"
Fogghorn
Mensa of the board
Posts: 5625
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:47 am

Re: Canucks, woulda, coulda, shoulda 24-25

Post by Fogghorn »

Bit more on speed. Not only is O'Connor in top 10% for speed he replaced Heinen a guy in the botton 50% ( I really wish the NHL would show specifics for below 50%, but guess they don't want to embarrass players? Also Chytil hits 92% in speed and 95% in top burst speed vs JT Miller at 60% percentile in top speed and 88% percentile in top burst speed......and JT, never seen that big a discrepancy between top speed and top burst, maybe you need to be a bit less lazy out there? Just checked last years numbers, he was 88% in top speed and 96% in burst. Was he hurt this year or just not trying?

The Canucks are slow but these two help a lot with that. Having one fast guy on a line can be pretty disruptive to the opponent. As a secondary bonus O'Connor/Chytil are a combined 12 years younger than Heinen/Miller........so there is that.
Shoresy, "It's called a sweater"
Fogghorn
Mensa of the board
Posts: 5625
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:47 am

Re: Canucks, woulda, coulda, shoulda 24-25

Post by Fogghorn »

https://canucksarmy.com/news/2-vancouve ... pects-list" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Canucks have two prospects ranked in Craig Buttons top 15 list. Only Washington and Montreal also have two. And as mentioned a lot of other talent just about to step up in next two years. However the cupboard is pretty damn bare for 3 years from now. Too many picks have been traded.
Shoresy, "It's called a sweater"
Fogghorn
Mensa of the board
Posts: 5625
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:47 am

Re: Canucks, woulda, coulda, shoulda 24-25

Post by Fogghorn »

So looking over NHL edge data for EP40. Good news his shot speed is as good as it was two years ago, so whatever was bothering him last year is pretty much healed. His skating speed is still way down, and actually worse than last year.

---------top skating speed-------percentile
2022-23 ------23.32---------------94%
2024-25-------21.58------------below 50%

nearly 2 mph drop in foot speed, or almost 10% is significant. Hoping it can heal, if not he needs to really adjust his game.
Shoresy, "It's called a sweater"
User avatar
CanuckinOz
Vegemite Enthusiast
Posts: 998
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:43 pm
Location: Swimming in it

Re: Canucks, woulda, coulda, shoulda 24-25

Post by CanuckinOz »

I dunno dude, I still think we have a shot this year, looks like Demko is back and the team is playing Defense and winning games and that's what's gonna win in the playoffs. If someone could convince Petey to shoot the bloody puck on the PP especially, who knows?!

what's the word on the street about Boeser? Sign or trade?
User avatar
CanuckinOz
Vegemite Enthusiast
Posts: 998
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:43 pm
Location: Swimming in it

Re: Canucks, woulda, coulda, shoulda 24-25

Post by CanuckinOz »

sorry I missed a bunch of your posts as hadn't refreshed before I posted, I definitely don't want to trade Demko at this point, also not concerned about Petey's speed, it's never been his calling card, but with Hughes out he seems to think his only job on the PP is distributing the puck, Shoot it already! Whole team looks better now that the JT/Petey thing is over. Think Horvat would come back in a heart beat if we could swing it, and like to think Alvin would do it if he thought it was the best thing for the team.
Fogghorn
Mensa of the board
Posts: 5625
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:47 am

Re: Canucks, woulda, coulda, shoulda 24-25

Post by Fogghorn »

CanuckinOz wrote:I dunno dude, I still think we have a shot this year, looks like Demko is back and the team is playing Defense and winning games and that's what's gonna win in the playoffs. If someone could convince Petey to shoot the bloody puck on the PP especially, who knows?!

what's the word on the street about Boeser? Sign or trade?
We have a very good shot to be in the playoffs, I actually expect the team to surpass LA and grab the 3rd spot. That doesn't mean I think they will be one of the 5 or 6 teams in serious contention for the cup. Florida, Washington, Jets, Edmonton......maybe they can be listed in that group if EP40 returns to form but its been 13 months now, something is off. Even with him in prime form I still think they'll need an upgrade on either Chytil or that #4 dman to be a serious contender.
Shoresy, "It's called a sweater"
Fogghorn
Mensa of the board
Posts: 5625
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:47 am

Re: Canucks, woulda, coulda, shoulda 24-25

Post by Fogghorn »

Beating the Leafs is always guaranteed to make me feel good for the rest of the night. If you had told me a month ago this team would win 3 in a row without Hughes I would not have beleieved it. But they've deserved their wins, going to be nice to see what they look like with Hughes back in the line up.

And oh yeah, Demko hurt again. :(
Shoresy, "It's called a sweater"
User avatar
CanuckinOz
Vegemite Enthusiast
Posts: 998
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:43 pm
Location: Swimming in it

Re: Canucks, woulda, coulda, shoulda 24-25

Post by CanuckinOz »

Yeah Demko hurt again is very disappointing. Love beating the leafs though :haha:

I dunno we seem to be able to hang with the best teams, we"ll see, also the trade deadline is still a bit away, who knows what else might happen.
Fogghorn
Mensa of the board
Posts: 5625
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:47 am

Re: Canucks, woulda, coulda, shoulda 24-25

Post by Fogghorn »

a very nice write up on Lekkerimaki

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/canu ... l-10227026" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Shoresy, "It's called a sweater"
User avatar
the Cunning Linguist
Old Man of the Post
Posts: 6871
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:53 pm
Location: Inside your computer

Re: Canucks, woulda, coulda, shoulda 24-25

Post by the Cunning Linguist »

I share your concern for Petterson's lack of speed. He's just not getting into the open spaces, and making room for his linemates or plays with his footspeed. The shot might be there but he takes far too long to set up and he's just so hesitant most of the time, you can actually see the gears turning in his head when he's in a shooting position. His clapper isn't there anymore and mostly because he's so static he's easy to cover and be taken away.

So far enjoying the move from JT Miller to MPetey+DOC for about the same price: move the cap resource to the need (defence, better size, and speed). I loved JTM's passion but he also has his warts - prone to give away the puck at the worst time, tries to do too much other times; saw plenty of that on Team USA. We'll debate Horvat vs. Miller but at the end of the day, I like Hronek for Horvat; hopefully, MPetey allows Tocchet to run with Huggy/Hronek and MPetey/Myers and limiting DPetey/Soucy, and let us forget we gave up a 100+pt 1C for that. Maybe one of Willander or Mancini will surprise us and be ready to take on a bottom pairing role. Chytil is no JTM but I like what really I see so far; I hope he stays healthy and continues to show some upside. I love that he doesn't just dump and chase; he'll actually hold onto the puck, carry it in, and make a play - I hope Petey re-learns that mojo.

I miss commiserating with you guys...
Fogghorn
Mensa of the board
Posts: 5625
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:47 am

Re: Canucks, woulda, coulda, shoulda 24-25

Post by Fogghorn »

Lankinen resigns $4.5 x 5 years. I'm pretty good with the dollar amount although wish it had been for one year less.

https://canucksarmy.com/news/vancouver- ... -extension" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Logan Thompson, $5.8 million a year, Mackenzie Blackwood, $5.2 [million], Joey decor, $5.2 [million], Ukko-Pekka Lukkonnen, $4.7 [million]. Where does Lankinen belong in that group? I’m saying that there’s been some goalie sign this year that have changed the goalie market. Outside of Blackwood, all have similar games played experience.
When you look at those goalies as comparables, and consider the jump in cap space Lankinen's dollar amount seems like a very good deal. But he'll also be 35 when the deal expires.

I guess the bottom line is with Demko's injury history they really, really need a solid backup who can be depended to take over a starter role if/when Demko goes down, or retires.
Shoresy, "It's called a sweater"
User avatar
CanuckinOz
Vegemite Enthusiast
Posts: 998
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:43 pm
Location: Swimming in it

Re: Canucks, woulda, coulda, shoulda 24-25

Post by CanuckinOz »

I've just woken up from some EP40 wet dream, where has this guy been? can he do it for another 21+ games?

Any thoughts on deadline day? Do we want to keep Boes? I'm struggling, I think I'd rather keep him then roll the dice and I'm still hoping we're close to being a contender'

Nice to see you TCL! hope we see you around more often!
Fogghorn
Mensa of the board
Posts: 5625
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:47 am

Re: Canucks, woulda, coulda, shoulda 24-25

Post by Fogghorn »

CanuckinOz wrote:I've just woken up from some EP40 wet dream, where has this guy been? can he do it for another 21+ games?

Any thoughts on deadline day? Do we want to keep Boes? I'm struggling, I think I'd rather keep him then roll the dice and I'm still hoping we're close to being a contender'

Nice to see you TCL! hope we see you around more often!
Boeser is a truly great human being, I would be sad to see him go but this team is not a contender...........probably. For them to contend EP40 has to regain the form he had in 2022 and 2023, the player we see today is a solid 3rd line centre, weakish 2nd line centre, he has fallen off a cliff with his play. And even if he returns to form, is Chytil really a 2nd line centre, his history/concussion issue raises serious concerns. The Canucks would have to have a lot of things go right next year including Willander, DPetey, Mancini, play like vets and Lekkermaki score 25+, Hoglander 25+ next year.

If they are not going to contend, its better they trade Boeser. The prices look like they will be steep payments for rentals this year.
Shoresy, "It's called a sweater"
Logical Progression
The Bird is the Word, yet the Word ≥ the Bird
Posts: 3166
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:40 pm

Re: Canucks, woulda, coulda, shoulda 24-25

Post by Logical Progression »

Paraphrasing here, but Allvin said the offers for Brock were insulting. Really? In a sellers market? Makes me curious how much interest there actually will be for him on the open market -what offers they actually received. 4th or 5th Round pick?

Perhaps management were thinking too big and holding out for a roster player or centre or something, instead of draft capital and lost the game of musical chairs.

Bit of a head scratcher. Quite awkward between Boeser and the club now. Wonder if they will try to strike a long term deal with him to keep him a Canuck.

Lanks steals a win last night versus the Mild and Petey rips one on the PP to finally get off the schneid.
User avatar
E.L.
Big in Japan
Posts: 14975
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:37 am
Location: 'Real City

Re: Canucks, woulda, coulda, shoulda 24-25

Post by E.L. »

I can’t imagine Boeser sticks around after those comments by Allvin…
Image
Fogghorn
Mensa of the board
Posts: 5625
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:47 am

Re: Canucks, woulda, coulda, shoulda 24-25

Post by Fogghorn »

Either Alvin was way over evaluating his players, and he hasn't really shown that in his history of frequent trades, or its just negotiations, trying to make Boeser's camp think there is not that much demand for his services, and hoping they'll be able to sign him at a lower price. I'm inclined to think its the latter.
Shoresy, "It's called a sweater"
Post Reply