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 Post subject: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:23 am 
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Pokecheque wrote:
Apparently both Hinch and Luhnow have also been fired.

Why were no players punished? They had a big role to play in this too.


Apparently Manfred said that it was so broad in scope it's hard to determine just how many/much to suspend guys and a lot have moved on now to different teams, where it wouldn't exactly be fair to punish their teams when their teams had nothing to do with it.

The punishment is very clearly not enough. They'd go back and do it 100%. So would a lot of other teams if you'd ask if they'd give up what the Astros did to guarantee a championship. The max fine as per the CBA is apparently $5M, which needs to change.

The playoff revenue share and the Astros revenues from the game would be enormous. The players' share alone was over $30 million.

The late 1st and 2nd rounders might have a surplus value approaching $30 M total.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/an-update-o ... aft-picks/

They should have removed them from the international bonus pool for some years too, frankly.

They needed to be hit harder but if ownership wasn't found culpable and they shitcanned Hinch and Luhnow, how far can Manfred go and damage the Astros' future? Then you've got sponsors, TV agreements, all that stuff that if you damage the franchise, does that shit goes to the courts?

Overall, the Astros made out like fucking bandits in this thing.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:34 am 
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Frankly, if this cheating gave both the Astros and Sox an edge in the postseason then both the last two World Series titles need to be vacated.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:25 pm 
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Pokecheque wrote:
Frankly, if this cheating gave both the Astros and Sox an edge in the postseason then both the last two World Series titles need to be vacated.


No way that'll ever happen. As long as there's been baseball there's been cheating in baseball.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:59 pm 
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E.L. wrote:
No way that'll ever happen. As long as there's been baseball there's been cheating in baseball.


And very little effort to clean it up.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:06 am 
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Bosc wrote:
Pokecheque wrote:
Apparently both Hinch and Luhnow have also been fired.

Why were no players punished? They had a big role to play in this too.


Apparently Manfred said that it was so broad in scope it's hard to determine just how many/much to suspend guys and a lot have moved on now to different teams, where it wouldn't exactly be fair to punish their teams when their teams had nothing to do with it.


So if a guy tests positive for roids after signing with a new team he shouldn't be suspended since the roids didn't benefit his new team? :lol:

And not suspending or doing anything to them basically encourages cheating with all the new teams those guys have moved on to. I know cheating is a tradition in baseball, but there should be a better attempt to stop it in this case. It's gone quite high tech and will only get worse as technology improves cameras with smaller sizes and better zoom/focus.

Easy but slow way to counter act this- Allow catchers to walk out to the mound again. They can hide their mouth with their glove and say what they want.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:34 am 
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Chris18 wrote:
Bosc wrote:
Pokecheque wrote:
Apparently both Hinch and Luhnow have also been fired.

Why were no players punished? They had a big role to play in this too.


Apparently Manfred said that it was so broad in scope it's hard to determine just how many/much to suspend guys and a lot have moved on now to different teams, where it wouldn't exactly be fair to punish their teams when their teams had nothing to do with it.


So if a guy tests positive for roids after signing with a new team he shouldn't be suspended since the roids didn't benefit his new team? :lol:


I'm not saying it's a flawless reasoning but I can see the rationale behind it. There are timing issues with your scenario like when exactly the test was performed/failed, status of investigation and awareness of the team when signing, etc. I'm guessing that MLB has some stuff in place regarding that.

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And not suspending or doing anything to them basically encourages cheating with all the new teams those guys have moved on to. I know cheating is a tradition in baseball, but there should be a better attempt to stop it in this case. It's gone quite high tech and will only get worse as technology improves cameras with smaller sizes and better zoom/focus.


Ideally something would be done but how do you do an investigation that broad in scope for all of the guys on the squad, in a timely manner, in a way that the PA won't take to the courts case by case to fight? You definitely have to find a way to limit the tech in the future for sure.

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Easy but slow way to counter act this- Allow catchers to walk out to the mound again. They can hide their mouth with their glove and say what they want.


Absolutely fucking not. No mound visits. The absolute worst part of watching baseball.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:49 am 
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Bosc wrote:
Absolutely fucking not. No mound visits. The absolute worst part of watching baseball.


Agreed, but cheating sucks too. How about the pitcher and catcher wear iWatches? They can Facetime the signs :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:18 am 
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Chris18 wrote:
Bosc wrote:
Absolutely fucking not. No mound visits. The absolute worst part of watching baseball.


Agreed, but cheating sucks too. How about the pitcher and catcher wear iWatches? They can Facetime the signs :lol:


See, that might actually work but we already know baseball's had hacking scandals...

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:48 pm 
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Bosc wrote:
Chris18 wrote:
Bosc wrote:
Absolutely fucking not. No mound visits. The absolute worst part of watching baseball.


Agreed, but cheating sucks too. How about the pitcher and catcher wear iWatches? They can Facetime the signs :lol:


See, that might actually work but we already know baseball's had hacking scandals...


I knew that would be the reply. Some frigging 12 year old would end up making his father millions by hacking the system and all but ensuring his favorite team wins the WS, with dad betting the whole time. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:06 pm 
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I guess you go with a headset or use signals similar to football, I'm not sure what else you can do.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:07 pm 
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Pokecheque wrote:
I guess you go with a headset or use signals similar to football, I'm not sure what else you can do.


Let the pitcher throw whatever he wants and the catcher guesses along with the batter. :lol: The stolen sign offence increase would be offset by the high number of wild pitches and past balls.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:23 pm 
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More Astros cheating fallout: Cora out in Boston and Beltran out in New York.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:56 pm 
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And now there's evidence Bregman and Altuve were outfitted with sensors under their pits that buzzed when it was certain pitches. Altuve's home/road splits in the playoffs are pretty wild!

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:20 pm 
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E.L. wrote:
And now there's evidence Bregman and Altuve were outfitted with sensors under their pits that buzzed when it was certain pitches. Altuve's home/road splits in the playoffs are pretty wild!


Holy shit...this just gets crazier by the day.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:53 am 
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Pokecheque wrote:
E.L. wrote:
And now there's evidence Bregman and Altuve were outfitted with sensors under their pits that buzzed when it was certain pitches. Altuve's home/road splits in the playoffs are pretty wild!


Holy shit...this just gets crazier by the day.


A just punishment- figure out how long they were doing this for. Then match that duration with those guys wearing canine fence shock collars on those same locations. Fastball coming? BZZZZZ! It could be sponsored! "There's another fastball freak out by Altuve, brought to you by Invisible Fence! Only 3 more seasons of this to go, little cheater! Look at him jump around screaming how it hurts. Come on kids, gimme a 1, 2 3 awwwwww."

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:33 pm 
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Altuve's denying the allegations. But it's kinda hard to do so when you see shit like this.

https://twitter.com/Shippyfunsports/sta ... 3486168065

A shame, I was a big fan of Altuve, a guy who worked his ass off to get into the bigs and excelled once he got there.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:12 pm 
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Pokecheque wrote:
Altuve's denying the allegations. But it's kinda hard to do so when you see shit like this.

https://twitter.com/Shippyfunsports/sta ... 3486168065

A shame, I was a big fan of Altuve, a guy who worked his ass off to get into the bigs and excelled once he got there.


Altuve is halfway to 3000 hits and he'll only be 30 opening day. Probably torpedoed his HOF chances.

Bregman is just gutting his career started, but even if he puts up HOF numbers I don't think he'll get in either.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:15 pm 
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E.L. wrote:

Bregman is just gutting his career


Freudian typo? :laugh:

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:57 pm 
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Chris18 wrote:
E.L. wrote:

Bregman is just gutting his career


Freudian typo? :laugh:


:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:50 pm 
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Hall of Fame Day today...and things don't appear great for Larry Walker. Already Peter Gammons left both Walker and Helton off his ballot.

So it goes like this in baseball: Playing at Coors Field, which people outside of Colorado treat like the pull of gravity is less than anywhere else on the planet, is stigmatized about as badly as guys who actually cheated at the game.

The Rockies are retiring Walker's number 33 this upcoming year. They purposely held off on doing so because any association with the Rockies hurt his HOF chances. Since this is his last shot, they're free to honor him.

Fuck baseball.


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