OffThePost.org

(Generation III)
It is currently Thu Apr 18, 2024 12:19 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 177 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Advanced Stats
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:47 am
Posts: 5226
Good read, and Burke your sunset has come and gone

Quote:
Sloan Sports Analytic Conference


MIT's Business School Presented the Sixth Annual Sloan Sports Analytics Conference in Boston on the weekend, and Scott Cullen was there, witnessing the uphill fight for advanced statistics to gain widespread acceptance in hockey.

Before we get into this, a disclaimer. It may not be necessary, but if you're not familiar with my work, I'm very much into the statistical analysis in sports. It's what I do and as information becomes ever-easier to acquire, it seems like an area that is ripe for growth as I wrote in the foreward for this year's Hockey Prospectus, but not everyone is a believer.

I am a believer, that statistical analysis can provide valuable information, so my recap of the weekend's proceedings comes from that point of view. It's the same point of view I had last year when I was critical of hockey's use of advanced statistics and that frustration may spill out for years to come until there is more widespread acceptance. It's nothing personal, hockey, I just want the best for you.

With that out of the way, my recap of the 2012 Sloan Sports Analytics Conference and the influence of statistical analysis in sports, especially hockey.

LONG TIME COMING
Bill James, who was honoured with a Lifetime Achievement Award at this year's conference, started writing his Baseball Abstracts in 1977 and he had little to no acceptance until Daniel Okrent wrote a column in Sports Illustrated in 1981. (Long-time fantasy players may recognize Okrent's name -- he organized the first Rotisserie baseball league in 1979.)

Even then, James' acceptance didn't come from within the baseball community. It was a much longer process. While there isn't a definitive date at which MLB teams started using James' Sabermetric philosophies, but the late 1990s Oakland A's -- slightly before the Moneyball era -- are generally considered the trail blazers in this regard.

The thinking from hockey's advanced stat community is that, seeing James' influence on baseball, there should be teams in other sports clamouring for this kind of objective analysis. There are some NHL teams that are using advanced stats analysis, but the league isn't at the point at which statistical analysis has reached widespread acceptance.

When James Mirtle of the Globe and Mail wrote about Moneypuck last September, he spoke with Dan MacKinnon, who is in charge of the Pittsburgh Penguins' analytical efforts. MacKinnon, who was a panelist at the Sloan Conference last year, estimated that maybe half a dozen teams are actively using analytics with maybe another half dozen starting to explore the ideas. Based on conversations with others at the conference this weekend, that estimate still seems to be a fair representation.

Advanced hockey stats face several challenges in gaining wider acceptance. For starters, advanced hockey stats haven't been around that long, when compared to James' advances in baseball stats more than 30 years ago.

Advanced hockey stats are also more complicated due to the nature of a game that involves ten skaters in motion on the ice at once with changes on the fly, making it necessary for any complete statistical analysis to consider strength of teammates, strength of competition and zone starts in order to provide context for the raw numbers.

HOCKEY ANALYTICS PANEL
Additionally, modern stats analysts face challenges of convincing teams that are often run by men in their fifties and sixties that have been involved in the game for their entire lives and have the strong convictions and track record required to be a success in the industry.

As such, it wasn't remotely surprising that Toronto Maple Leafs President and General Manager, Brian Burke, would be so vocal in his opposition to the premise of using advanced stats in hockey. Burke thrives in the panel environment and can dominate the proceedings because of his bold and colourful opinions.

He was joined on the panel, hosted by the NHL Network's Kathryn Tappen, by Bruins GM Peter Chiarelli, former NHLer Tony Amonte, broadcaster (and former player, coach and GM) Mike Milbury and Michael Schuckers, an Associate Professor of Statistics at St. Lawrence University. ("One of these things is not like the others...")

Always good for a lively quote, Burke offered his take early on during the hockey panel, saying, "Statistics are like a lamp post to a drunk: supportive but not very illuminating." It got a chuckle from the crowd, but that may have only masked groans; after all, this was at a conference dedicated to the use of analytics in sports, so the crowd was more stat-savvy than most.

To the chagrin of every stathead, Burke colourfully insisted that numbers couldn't determine a player's character or bravery, with the implication that such things were fundamental to establishing the player's value. While it would be foolish to dismiss character and bravery as desirable traits for a hockey player, the possibility exists that those traits haven't been valued correctly during the Burke era in Toronto.

Mike Komisarek, Colby Armstrong and Colton Orr would all be considered high character guys, and there's no reason to think otherwise, but given their production, isn't at least conceivable that the Maple Leafs might have overvalued the character and bravery aspect of their contribution when signing them as free agents? Just so we're not accused of poking holes at the grinders instead of skill guys, Tim Connolly hasn't yielded a great return on investment either.

I'm not suggesting that Burke doesn't know talent; far from it. He's made a lot of excellent trades in his career, but when heart and grit and character are primary selling features of a player, those who look at the numbers are going to have a hard time justifying big money being paid for intangible benefits.

Peter Chiarelli wasn't quite so bold in his pronouncements, but acknowledged that the Bruins do use an advanced plus-minus statistic, based on scoring chances and that alone is at least somewhat progressive.

The reason that teams might use events, beyond goals, to help establish a player's value is that goals are such rare occurrences in the course of a hockey game that finding evidence of puck possession and territorial dominance needs to be established through other means in order to gain greater statistical relevance. Teams that track scoring chances for and against are adding more data to the mix, so even if that was the entirety of what the Bruins are doing statistically, it's more than just looking at standard goals, assists and plus-minus.

If a team isn't tracking scoring chances for all teams in all games, though, using statistics like Corsi (shots on goal plus blocked shots plus missed shots) or Fenwick (shots on goal plus blocked shots) add more data, which allows for some league-wide comparisons.

So, as Burke dismissed a statistic like plus-minus as useless because a shutdown defenceman on a bad team could have a bad plus-minus -- applying the context that anyone would expect in serious statistical analysis -- it seems more like Burke could be in favour of advanced statistics because they tell a more complete story than simple plus-minus.

Maybe he just hasn't seen the right statistics or they haven't been presented in the best way. I don't think that the shortcomings of antiquated statistics, however, makes for an argument against the use of more advanced stats. On the contrary, it cries for better and more accurate measures.

The point of advanced statistics isn't to come up with a singular plus-minus-style number that provides an all-encompassing value for a player, but relevant statistics, applied in context (considering quality of competition, quality of teammates and zone starts, for example) have to be helpful.

It strains belief to insist that having more knowledge about what a player accomplishes on the ice couldn't possibly be beneficial to a team's decision-making process.

CHAMPIONSHIP OR BUST?
One of the reasons that Burke asserted he wasn't buying the Moneyball concept for hockey was that, in addition to the fundamental differences in the sports, "Moneyball didn't win a championship." In his curmudgeonly way, Burke insisted that the A's should have had a parade before espousing their stat-savvy philosophy in a book.

On the surface it is true that the Oakland A's didn't win a World Series and, as Milbury pointed out, the movie Moneyball didn't pay any attention to the A's trio of starting pitchers (Tim Hudson, Mark Mulder and Barry Zito) that made such success possible. While the A's made the playoffs on a shoestring budget, competing against teams with far greater resources, they did not win a title.

However, it's preposterous to suggest that the concepts of statistical analysis behind Moneyball haven't resulted in titles. The Boston Red Sox hired Bill James in 2003 and World Series titles followed in 2004 and 2007. This from a team that hadn't won a World Series since 1918.

The Dallas Mavericks won the NBA title in 2011 with a stats analyst, Roland Beech (founder of the site http://www.82games.com), on the bench.

In any case, just because a championship isn't won, that doesn't make the process inherently incorrect. What would one round's worth of home games in the playoffs be worth? That's not enough incentive to maybe consider a smarter method of asset valuation?

In a league that operates with a salary cap, anything that could possibly improve a team's budget decisions ultimately affects the calibre of team that ends up on the ice.

DRAFT
What is the cost of a draft bust? In the same panel, Burke said that all of the GMs have scouted players that they were sure would become NHLers and, by the end of their entry-level contracts, they were never heard from again.

While no amount of stastistical analysis could eliminate all draft busts, wouldn't it be advantageous to improve the value gained from draft picks? What if, instead of one in five picks falling below expectations, a team could make it one in eight? Or what if a team hit a late-round home run once every four years instead of once every ten? It's these incremental improvements that can raise a team's level of competition.

There were a few interesting points made when it came to the draft discussion:

Peter Chiarelli said that the Bruins tend to target heavier players when it came to the draft, finding that a prospects weight had a better correlation to NHL success than height, referencing the advantage for players with a lower centre of gravity.

Teams naturally want to know what kind of teenagers they will be drafting and Burke said that players that are good enough to be high draft picks are almost always captains at some level as they grew up. When asked why he was never a captain (raising questions about attitude or some other red flag), Jaromir Jagr explained that it was because he always played with players that were three years older. Burke said it was the best answer he ever got to that question.

Burke also said that, when he was with Vancouver, he decided he liked Ryan Kesler after seeing him play one shift at Ohio State, telling his scouts he had seen enough and that they should do whatever they needed to get him in the first round. By contrast, Burke said he went to watch Wayne Simmonds play eight games for Owen Sound and didn't see anything in those eight games to indicate that he'd be worth drafting.

These are the uncertainties that NHL general managers face when scouting 17-year-olds. One of the most prominent challenges faced by anyone in the scouting or analysis side of things is determining a player's character, work ethic and desire to get better.

Baseball super agent Scott Boras was on a couple of panels at the conference and, aside from revealing a humanity that was unexpected, the psychology of an athlete was one of the areas that Boras felt was due for further exploration.

For all the physical tools and statistical production that a player might have, it's an ongoing challenge for others (agents, executives, coaches etc.) to know just how motivated a player will be to perform, particularly once they have big money in the bank. The psychology of athletes is a different type of analytics, but one that has been brought up in each of the last two years at the Sloan Conference as being an area for improvement.

AGENTS
What is fascinating is that the acceptance of advanced stats in hockey seems to be coming along a little more easily with player agents, who are trying to find any methods that would indicate their clients are more valuable. It's not unlike the experience that Bill James encountered more than 30 years ago, as James said agents were more receptive to his ideas then too.

One of Amonte's best contributions to the panel was as Burke was lamenting how agents would use numbers to sway arbitrators that might not be terribly familiar with hockey, Amonte piped up that general managers had the same right to establish comparables too.

It's hardly the fault of statistics that one side uses them more effectively to advance an argument in front of a neutral observer.

FUTURE
Now, as down as Burke was on applying the Moneyball movement to hockey, there has been progress. Gabe Desjardins continues to do terrific work on http://www.behindthenet.ca and he consults with NHL teams. (He had some issues with Burke's comments too.)

Schuckers and Brian Macdonald, an Assistant Professor of Mathematics at the U.S. Military Academy, have presented research at the last couple Sloan conferences and a couple of University of Toronto students, Timothy Chan and David Novati, offered their take on measuring individual point shares for NHL players at this year's conference.

These are all signs of progress. There were more NHL teams represented at the Sloan Conference this year and even if advanced stats are far from receiving the wholehearted acceptance that the stats community would prefer, it is a sign of a movement that is gaining traction; it just might be slower than hoped.

Perhaps the biggest challenge facing proponents of advanced stats is the ability to make the data represent something meaningful and that makes it imperative for those providing the information to sell it in relatable terms. It's not enough to say, "This is Player X's Corsi, so that establishes the entirety of his worth as a hockey player."

Context needs to be applied to tell the whole story.

As challenging as it can be to get buy-in from the front office, it's another level altogether to get coaches and players to accept the data as useful.

There were some interesting points made on various non-hockey panels in this regard.

Mike Zarren, the Assistant GM with the Boston Celtics, talked about how stats analysts might come up with half a dozen points of interest based on their data, which they would then pass on to the coach. The coach might take three or four of those points and express to the players and, ultimately, a player might incorporate one of those tactics effectively in a game situation.

Basketball coach Jeff Van Gundy (a conference All-Star with his quick wit) stated that he would lie to players about their stats if it would help him change their behaviour, but Van Gundy also said that he wouldn't tell a player to take an extra dribble just because the statistics say that a player shoots a few percentage points better after five dribbles, instead of four.

Former major league baseball player Rocco Baldelli, who works as a special assistant for the Tampa Bay Rays, pointed out that even with all the advanced statistical knowledge that exists in baseball, a player has to be willing to apply it if he's going to affect positive change. No matter what information you offer a player, it won't matter if the player isn't inclined to take advantage of the knowledge.

Soccer analyst Alexi Lalas made a good point about incorporating video to help get those points across. It's one thing to tell a player about stats, but another matter entirely to be able to show examples that identify areas for improvement and don't allow a player to make excuses for why the stats might not be in that player's favour.

It can be heartening to see what other sports are doing to improve the level of analysis available but, at the same time, that only increases the frustration for those in the hockey stats community, who would rather have teams make decisions based on the best available information and it's out there, for those that are willing to look.

Scott Cullen can be reached at [email protected] and followed on Twitter at http://twitter.com/tsnscottcullen. For more, check out TSN Fantasy on Facebook.

_________________
Shoresy, "It's called a sweater"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Stats
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:32 pm 
Offline
Big in Japan
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:37 am
Posts: 14258
Location: 'Real City
Burke's lamppost joke is actually a famous Mark Twain quote.

Anyways, Sask has been bandying about nu-stats for some time now and I've mostly taken them with a grain of salt so I suppose I'll weigh in here, especially as someone who's obsessed with sabermetrics in baseball.

I think every team should look heavily into advanced statistics and should come up with their own internal stats, there's simply no reason not too. That being said, the new stats I've seen thus far don't impress me, and feel like regular stats with slightly more meat on them. To me the core of hockey fundamentals: skating, positioning, vision - remain un-quantifiable.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Stats
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:47 am
Posts: 5226
E.L. wrote:
To me the core of hockey fundamentals: skating, positioning, vision - remain un-quantifiable.


As the saying goes "if you can't measure it you can't understand it" People used to think the same about business as you doing of hockey evaluation until Drucker's seminal work with GM in the 50's that revolutionized how business is done so much today that people don't even realize it was not always this way.

As for your fundamentals right off the top of my head I'd suggest # of take aways would be very indicative of skating, positioning and vision if considered within context of the coach's system and players compared to other team members.

Having said all that any metric has to be taken with a grain of salt. It's a model or reality and all models are wrong but some models are useful and it's important to determine how useful the model is.

_________________
Shoresy, "It's called a sweater"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Stats
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:38 pm 
Offline
2003-04 Goalie Profiles Coming Soon!

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:13 pm
Posts: 10875
Location: who can even keep track
The one key skill that isn't measured enough for my liking (and isn't in E.L.'s list, either) is passing. Most plays involve a pass, and while we do have things like giveaways/takeaways they are pretty shoddily recorded, varying wildly from rink to rink.

I think you use stats to go with your scouting reports. Scouting reports will tell you that Jack Johnson is a great skater, an above average shooter, and plays a strong physical game. Advanced stats tell you he sucks... heck, plus/minus implies that, too.

I'm looking forward to the coming years and what we're able to find out about the game in a micro level that tells us something about the macro. I know some people are working on things like zone entries, dumping/chasing vs. carrying it in, successful vs. thwarted. That seems to be something that would be greatly beneficial to coaching strategy.

Scouting is still going to rely heavy on the analysis/grading of tools. But advanced stats might help us determine the importance of certain tools. I found Chiarelli's comment about seeking out players who have a more massive core/lower centre of gravity an illuminating piece of information. It tells us something about body type at the highest levels compared to teenage hockey.

I'm also looking forward to the eventual breakthrough in goaltending analysis. We're still stuck on save percentage, and a bit more specifically at even strength save percentage, taking away the team skill aspect that can be prevalent in shorthanded situations. I know a writer at Eyes On the Prize that is doing a lot of analysis of goaltender movement, rebound control, and trying to show how teams can insulate/protect goaltenders and help their save percentage.

With hockey, straight numbers will never suffice. I think in the future we'll see a lot more rink graphs that will help us lead to breakthroughs.

I also quite like this guy's scouting reports where he breaks out puck battles, one-on-ones, assigns risk to the plays made, and indeed does track passing success (by zone). Hockey has so many moving parts that it really is one of the most challenging sports to measure using analytics... but it can be done. I think in the future the best teams will have analytics departments that are as well staffed as their scouting departments.... that's the scope of what needs to be done I think for a top organization.

_________________
Injustice? Cobain died and Eddy Fucking Vedder lived to haunt us with his shitty fucking voice, trite lyrics and his Eddy Vedderness.

:steamingpileofcrap:

- Ancient Chinese Proverb


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Stats
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:46 pm 
Offline
Big in Japan
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:37 am
Posts: 14258
Location: 'Real City
Ah, now that you mention passing, one thing I remember back in the early post-lockout NHL, when hockey was actually entertaining, the resurgent Sabres became obsessed with puck possession. The longest they wanted a player to hold onto the puck was two seconds before passing it.

In terms of passing statistics, I'm sure teams have comprehensive stats on pass completion ratings, split into each zone, as well as high-risk passing stats (some guys can thread the needle through the middle of the zone, some can't), as well as maybe pass speed. Also similar to hitters who pull the ball, I'm sure players have pass tendencies that can then be matched with skaters who have certain shooting tendencies. I'm sure a lot of this stuff can be eyeballed, but concrete numbers could reveal more long-term tendencies.

One thing I feel certain new stats can reveal is how a player might fit a certain system. Star players are star players, but finding the right mix of bottom liners really is, in this day of salary cap gutted mediocrity, the difference between success and failure.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Stats
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:47 am
Posts: 5226
lol, I can just imagine someone telling Gretzky he couldn't set up shop behind the net cause he had to pass in under 2 seconds.

And personally if I was running a club I wouldn't count on rink stats, it would be too inconsistent. You'd want to hire your own team with your own internal standards for consistency. A team of 5 would be very cheap compared to the cost of a player.

_________________
Shoresy, "It's called a sweater"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Stats
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:07 am 
Offline
OTP Historian
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:10 pm
Posts: 11160
saskhab wrote:
The one key skill that isn't measured enough for my liking (and isn't in E.L.'s list, either) is passing. Most plays involve a pass, and while we do have things like giveaways/takeaways they are pretty shoddily recorded, varying wildly from rink to rink.


I think it's kind of funny that passing % has been in hockey video games for the past 15+ years...

Lots of great points all around. Anyone quick to dismiss advanced stats is too stubborn. Whether you actually rely on them is a different story, but if they present useful information why on earth wouldn't you use them? Plus, you have bloggers out there consolidating data for you.

Hockey is a difficult game to quantify because of all of the moving parts, but it shouldn't stop teams from doing research and finding new ways to measure skills that were historically unquantifiable.

_________________
Thanks Chuck, E.L. and Harmy!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Stats
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:25 am 
Offline
2003-04 Goalie Profiles Coming Soon!

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:13 pm
Posts: 10875
Location: who can even keep track
Fogghorn wrote:
lol, I can just imagine someone telling Gretzky he couldn't set up shop behind the net cause he had to pass in under 2 seconds.

And personally if I was running a club I wouldn't count on rink stats, it would be too inconsistent. You'd want to hire your own team with your own internal standards for consistency. A team of 5 would be very cheap compared to the cost of a player.

I also found it funny that Burke went off on the rink scorers... he's one of the most influential men in the game, if he doesn't like it, why isn't he requesting the standardization of it? These stats are used in contract negotiations, after all... and then they can have accurate info about whether or not hitting is up or down in the game, etc.

But yes, hire your own crew for internal collection, totally agree with that.

_________________
Injustice? Cobain died and Eddy Fucking Vedder lived to haunt us with his shitty fucking voice, trite lyrics and his Eddy Vedderness.

:steamingpileofcrap:

- Ancient Chinese Proverb


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Stats
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:29 pm 
Offline
Rebel Sell + Moneyball = Life
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:51 pm
Posts: 3319
Location: Ottawa, ON
Stats like Corsi and Fenwick, adjusted for quality of competition, pretty much internalize all the quantifiables and unquantifiables alike, anyway, assuming the purpose of all those other skills is to get the puck away from your net and into the opposition's. It's great if a guy has "vision", but if it doesn't translate into positive puck movement, I'm not sure what value it brings.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Stats
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:56 am 
Offline
2003-04 Goalie Profiles Coming Soon!

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:13 pm
Posts: 10875
Location: who can even keep track
I may have come up with something of my own for goaltenders using save percentage. Basically I plot out goaltenders using minutes played as a rough guide to compare them amongst their peers. I find out the average of the group and use a +/- system to give a grade for each goalie.

There's some noise in this system, but generally genuine starters have the highest average save percentage, goalies that play around half the time are next, pure backups are third and call-ups are last. Except for 2006-07 when hilariously the call-ups were significantly better than the backups showing that GM's were particularly incompetent that year insisting guys like Cloutier and Grahame were still NHLers when clearly they weren't.

One thing I've also noticed is that teams are using starters more and more than they did coming out of the lockout when we had more platoon systems.

SV% is higher today than pre-lockout. Though that doesn't include PHI/PIT. :lol:

_________________
Injustice? Cobain died and Eddy Fucking Vedder lived to haunt us with his shitty fucking voice, trite lyrics and his Eddy Vedderness.

:steamingpileofcrap:

- Ancient Chinese Proverb


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Stats
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:47 pm 
Offline
2003-04 Goalie Profiles Coming Soon!

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:13 pm
Posts: 10875
Location: who can even keep track
I should add, there's an advanced stated for skaters called "WOWY", which is 'With or Without You', a measure of how the team does when a player is not on the ice vs. when he's on it. I'm going to do this with goalies as well... how did the team do with their other goalies vs. how they did with the individual. For some, it'll be statistically insignificant due to sample size, but not for all.

_________________
Injustice? Cobain died and Eddy Fucking Vedder lived to haunt us with his shitty fucking voice, trite lyrics and his Eddy Vedderness.

:steamingpileofcrap:

- Ancient Chinese Proverb


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Stats
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:53 pm 
Offline
Finally figured out how to change this!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:54 pm
Posts: 11691
You should release a song too, spoofing U2.

I can't wiiiiiiiiiiin, with or without you.

_________________
Posting your political views on social media is like sticking your head up your ass & whispering: You're just as likely to change someone's mind, and you'll always come out looking like a shithead.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Stats
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:19 am 
Offline
2003-04 Goalie Profiles Coming Soon!

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:13 pm
Posts: 10875
Location: who can even keep track
These are great resources. Player usage charts for every team in the NHL. Charts players by possession stats, zone starts, and quality of competition.

http://www.hockeyabstract.com/testimoni ... edirects=0

_________________
Injustice? Cobain died and Eddy Fucking Vedder lived to haunt us with his shitty fucking voice, trite lyrics and his Eddy Vedderness.

:steamingpileofcrap:

- Ancient Chinese Proverb


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Stats
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:48 am 
Offline
2003-04 Goalie Profiles Coming Soon!

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:13 pm
Posts: 10875
Location: who can even keep track
More goalie stuff, this time from Ben Wendorf. Which goalies got crapped on the most?

http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/5/28/which-g ... on-the-ice

Basically, life was sweet for Jimmy Howard last year, same with Fleury and Crawford. Playing for the Wild? Yeah, that was a pretty raw deal.

_________________
Injustice? Cobain died and Eddy Fucking Vedder lived to haunt us with his shitty fucking voice, trite lyrics and his Eddy Vedderness.

:steamingpileofcrap:

- Ancient Chinese Proverb


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Stats
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:00 pm 
Offline
Old Man of the Post
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:53 pm
Posts: 6856
Location: Inside your computer
saskhab wrote:
More goalie stuff, this time from Ben Wendorf. Which goalies got crapped on the most?

http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/5/28/which-g ... on-the-ice

Basically, life was sweet for Jimmy Howard last year, same with Fleury and Crawford. Playing for the Wild? Yeah, that was a pretty raw deal.

Good stuff...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Stats
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:04 pm 
Offline
2003-04 Goalie Profiles Coming Soon!

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:13 pm
Posts: 10875
Location: who can even keep track
In case you can't tell from some of my article postings, NHLNumbers.com has switched from just a cap hit resource (which it lost the battle to CapGeek on) to an excellent comprehensive blog on... NHL Numbers. Lots of nerd talk going on there.

_________________
Injustice? Cobain died and Eddy Fucking Vedder lived to haunt us with his shitty fucking voice, trite lyrics and his Eddy Vedderness.

:steamingpileofcrap:

- Ancient Chinese Proverb


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Stats
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:41 am 
Offline
Old Man of the Post
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:53 pm
Posts: 6856
Location: Inside your computer
He stays at about 20,000' yet I still found this interview with GM Mike Gillis interesting...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Stats
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:49 pm 
Offline
2003-04 Goalie Profiles Coming Soon!

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:13 pm
Posts: 10875
Location: who can even keep track
Also doing an interview on advanced statistics... Bruce Peter. A low budget YouTube one, but I did one with Rob Vollman of ESPN Insider/Hockey Prospectus on league equivalencies and the top projected rookies for the 2012-13 season. Already dated.... I reference the Nash trade and we make note that Shea Weber's status was still unresolved. The video is for the Sabermetrics Network, a video project of the guys behind the various Prospectus websites (Baseball, Basketball, Football, etc.) to provide both explanations of the concepts and also apply some of them in these kind of open discussions. Rob is from Calgary and his wife is from Saskatchewan and of course the same area of the province my mom was from so it was pretty easy to be relaxed in it.

I think I did alright in it.

_________________
Injustice? Cobain died and Eddy Fucking Vedder lived to haunt us with his shitty fucking voice, trite lyrics and his Eddy Vedderness.

:steamingpileofcrap:

- Ancient Chinese Proverb


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Stats
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:40 am 
Offline
2003-04 Goalie Profiles Coming Soon!

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:13 pm
Posts: 10875
Location: who can even keep track

_________________
Injustice? Cobain died and Eddy Fucking Vedder lived to haunt us with his shitty fucking voice, trite lyrics and his Eddy Vedderness.

:steamingpileofcrap:

- Ancient Chinese Proverb


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Stats
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:58 am 
Offline
Promoted from Lt. Chaos
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:25 pm
Posts: 4024
Location: Vancouver
Nice!

_________________
GO CANUCKS GO!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 177 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group