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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:22 pm 
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Dumb to re-sign a guy like that when he could've probably snagged a decent 2nd rounder at least on the market. But whatever, this rebuild will have to succeed in spite of the current management team, not because of it.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:32 pm 
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Pokecheque wrote:
Dumb to re-sign a guy like that when he could've probably snagged a decent 2nd rounder at least on the market. But whatever, this rebuild will have to succeed in spite of the current management team, not because of it.



sigh, your truth is real and makes me so damn sad


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:23 am 
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Their back end is such a mess what does it really matter at this point? Gamble now instead of gamble for the future.

Young D who can play in the NHL are hard enough to draft let alone develop.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:19 am 
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Logical Progression wrote:
Their back end is such a mess what does it really matter at this point? Gamble now instead of gamble for the future.

Young D who can play in the NHL are hard enough to draft let alone develop.


Because he is the number 6 Dman, you don't pay your number 6 guy $4 million, that is what you pay for a 3 or 4. Guys like him can be found via free agency or AHL. Trade him for picks, getting more picks should be the biggest focus for a rebuilding team.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:26 pm 
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Fogghorn wrote:
Logical Progression wrote:
Their back end is such a mess what does it really matter at this point? Gamble now instead of gamble for the future.

Young D who can play in the NHL are hard enough to draft let alone develop.
Because he is the number 6 Dman, you don't pay your number 6 guy $4 million, that is what you pay for a 3 or 4. Guys like him can be found via free agency or AHL. Trade him for picks, getting more picks should be the biggest focus for a rebuilding team.
Yes I know but we are dreaming. Their rebuild plan is to protect the youth and develop them slowly -- and use their allotment of draft picks each year which is 7. The past 4 years they have had 28 picks. They refuse waiver from this plan. Either way it's a 8-10 year plan.

Plus they are so thin on D depth you just knew they would try to maximize this asset to cover their ass and move him when he is 28-29. It would badly expose what a bad deal they made to acquire him in the first place.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:30 pm 
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How much of his talked about draft success is due to Boeser? Yeah great find but some huge misses with the high picks as well.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:58 pm 
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A lot depends on whether Pettersson and Juolevi pan out from what I can see. Both Boeser and Horvat have turned out to be huge finds.

BTW, the next time someone uses the bullshit line "hard to play against," this will forever play in my head.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:10 pm 
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So here's why hockey is stupid, or at least the people in charge of it. Pro scouting is still largely an eye-test affair. They see stay-at-home defencemen like Gudbranson doing a lot of defensive things, like closing the gap, chippy stick play, board play, net clearing, blocking shots, hitting etc. and think, man he's good in his own end. The thing is, they get to see him in his own end a lot because he never has the puck and is always defending, because he's not a good player.

Sure, you need guys that can shutdown a game from time to time, but good defensive play can also simply be making up for an inferior skill set.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:41 pm 
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Here's the other myth: The good-in-the-room, aka "glue guys" are insanely easy to get. There's tons of them available every year. There's this narrative out there that only certain, special individuals have the grit/work ethic/character to be a good presence in the locker room of an NHL team, when in fact there's all kinds of guys fighting like hell to stay in the league and treat every shift like it's their last one, because if very well could be.

I don't think character is a completely disposable asset, but GMs year in, year out overrate it to an absurd degree. Avs did this too after that stellar 2013-14 season. They threw 3-year deals to everyone and anyone who wanted them. Two of those guys, Cody McLeod and Nick Holden, have changed teams twice since those deals were signed.

Oh, and no surprise, for a brief time both were on the Rangers roster.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:48 pm 
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I think character comes from developing young players around the same time. Leaders emerge within a group and a particular tone is set. At least Gudbranson is young enough that he can grow with the team as they rebuild.

Just because a guy was a leader somewhere, it doesn't mean you can airlift them into a new room where they'll have the same effect e.g. Messier in VAN

Paying for an undefinable quality like leadership is really dumb and likely to backfire. Did Andrew Ladd, CUP WINNER, make Long Island any better? No, they should've kept Okposo's youth and skill!

And you're totally right, Av, glue guys are often guys busting their ass just to stay in the league e.g. Steve Ott for about a decade. Sure, they're inspiring in a way, but how does watching a classy guy struggle to keep pace make your inconsistent second line winger any better?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:36 pm 
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The "veteran leadership" thing backfired in the worst possible way in Colorado last season. According to stuff that's come out since then, it was a super-awkward locker room atmosphere with guys like Iginla and Beauchemin not even playing at an NHL level and the young core too afraid to do/say anything about it.

Did not realize Jim Benning had a fairly successful NHL career. I honestly thought he was just a suit.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:45 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Okay, what is going on here...first Friedman with his comments about how Benning and Linden look out of sorts and downtrodden, now this.

http://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nh ... negativity


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:11 pm 
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Pokecheque wrote:
Okay, what is going on here...first Friedman with his comments about how Benning and Linden look out of sorts and downtrodden, now this.

http://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nh ... negativity
Quote:
But how do you measure that? How do you know if it has any impact? If Benning was really spooked about the court of public opinion, why didn’t he flip Vanek for a fifth-rounder?
Because NO picks were on the table for Vanek. It was a non-starter.

Anyhow, my take on all the vitriol coming from the market, is a result of the mixed messages and communication coming from the Canucks management team. They don't seem to respect the hockey intelligence of the market they are in.

On the one hand, they say all the right things. Committed to a full on Rebuild. They claim to be committed to getting younger, faster and more skilled -- then they re-sign Gudbranson. They don't play to Benning's strengths at the draft table by stock piling draft picks. They trade away picks and don't get any in return. Signing Miller, Vrbata, Vanek, Del Zotto, Ericksson. Making hockey trades for 20 something unproven fringe players on other clubs with a limited ceiling, instead of building through the draft. Or at least utilizing the draft more than they have. Spending to the cap. They are rebuilding by cutting corners. Therefore the rebuild is taking far longer than it needs to and it's very frustrating to witness. Meandering.

Not sure about Friedman's comments, they seem out of character. Canuck management know full well what market they are in -- and remain steadfast to the mixed plan.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:41 am 
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All due respect, I think Benning is lying when he says no one offered picks. Bullshit. Patrick Maroon is a less productive player and only 4 years younger, doesn't have anywhere near the track record Vanek has, and he got a 3rd rounder and prospect. No way in hell do I believe if Benning had shopped him around did at least 1 out of 30 other GMs not offer up a goddamn pick. A fifth would be the barest minimum I'd expect to see.

My take, and this is pure speculation on my part, is that he got indecisive (or ownership interfered again, same difference), everyone realized they were going to lose Vanek for nothing like they lost Hamhuis and Vrbata in previous seasons, panicked, and took whatever the hell they could get in the closing minutes...a tweener role player and journeyman vet who's now on his fourth friggin' team this season.

I WILL give credit where it's due though...the Leipsic deal was inspired. Low risk and possibly high reward. That's exactly the kind of trade a rebuilding club should do. Wish they'd do more like that.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:48 pm 
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Interesting, might just be him buttering up the media but according to Friedman, Pat Quinn said during his time in Toronto that the media there were bad but Vancouver is worse. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:22 pm 
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Pokecheque wrote:
Interesting, might just be him buttering up the media but according to Friedman, Pat Quinn said during his time in Toronto that the media there were bad but Vancouver is worse. :lol:

https://www.facebook.com/TSNRadioVancou ... 942343273/

:lol:

Check out this Jimbo parody currently making the rounds on Vancouver talk radio. Right around the 40 minute mark -- 40:45 to be precise.

TSN1040 has been under scrutiny of late for being unwaveringly malicious in their analysis of the Canucks. But it's all of the outlets really. Everyone has an agenda whether it's Friedman, Botchford or Gallagher or the blogs.

And it's all a ratings game at this point due to some very stiff media competition for fan and ad dollars. Anyone who has any hockey knowledge should be able to see through it and take with a large grain of salt.

The name of the game is fan engagement and entertainment. Never really been about fair and accurate reporting. i think this is pretty much the same in all Canadian markets. Extreme view points, controversial storylines and polarizing issues sometimes come at the expense of fairness.

One thing I have noticed since moving to California is that the coverage is clearly different here - less dramatic and venomous towards their home team in general more supportive. That may have to due with the sheer size of Southern California and for the most part successful franchises over the past decade. But even with the TV coverage, the commentators seem less dramatic with play by play and more 'objective' or professional with balance from both sides. Not just homerism or negative homerism as it were as we have seen across Canada.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:41 am 
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Logical Progression wrote:
One thing I have noticed since moving to California is that the coverage is clearly different here - less dramatic and venomous towards their home team in general more supportive. That may have to due with the sheer size of Southern California and for the most part successful franchises over the past decade. But even with the TV coverage, the commentators seem less dramatic with play by play and more 'objective' or professional with balance from both sides. Not just homerism or negative homerism as it were as we have seen across Canada.


Haven't paid much attention to the other guys but Brian Hayward is among the worst announcers/colour guys in hockey, easily.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:44 am 
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Bosc wrote:
Logical Progression wrote:
One thing I have noticed since moving to California is that the coverage is clearly different here - less dramatic and venomous towards their home team in general more supportive. That may have to due with the sheer size of Southern California and for the most part successful franchises over the past decade. But even with the TV coverage, the commentators seem less dramatic with play by play and more 'objective' or professional with balance from both sides. Not just homerism or negative homerism as it were as we have seen across Canada.
Haven't paid much attention to the other guys but Brian Hayward is among the worst announcers/colour guys in hockey, easily.
Oh agreed. He's bloody awful. The LA guys are good.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:56 am 
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Boeser injured in final seconds of isles game. Not good....

https://www.russianmachineneverbreaks.c ... door-open/


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