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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:06 am 
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Fogghorn wrote:
1. The trades were good. Didn't like the Kesler trade but since Anaheim was the only option allowed and it sounds like Kesler was a large negative to the team he had to go. The other trades were really solid and it's nice that they seem to be able to deal with other teams where Gillis was pretty restricted in partners for whatever reason.

2. I actually really like both the Benning and Desjardin choices. Bennings draft history is superb, so hopefully he see's something with McCann and Virtanen that the stats don't.

3. Thomas Gradin still has influence, the 5th round choice of Gustav Forsling looks really promising.

Right now I'm just in wait and see mode for free agency. I suspect they will try and spend the $17 mil in cap space (rumour is they want Miller) and make the playoffs, exact opposite of what I want to see. However if they choose to hang onto the cash, and be open with the fans about their intentions of rebuilding I'll be quite pleased.
I agree with your positive assessment and am willing to give management a wait and see approach with the 'size and balance' approach to their drafting. In general suppose I am a little less pessimistic than you Foggy, but not by much. Of course, given Bennings strong draft history and work ethic, there’s always the possibility that some of these prospects will prove me wrong, but this seems a long shot.

As far as free agency goes I am a little more concerned. The last thing this team needs is Luongo version 2.0, an overpriced head case who is past his prime. Quite frankly, Luongo is a better goalie than Miller. At least he's won more. The Canucks are clearly not comfortable with their goaltending duo as it stands. But they need to go after young promising NHL proven talent with their cap space, deals like the one for Vey. I know, I know -- get in line. The problem is the business side. They need to sell some hope to the Aquilini's and the largely naive fan base. A couple of big names would do the trick and would help those season ticket sales, which are reported to be down 5%. My guess is more like 10-15%. By the way, there is no more waiting list for seasons tickets.

I would bet that Trevor Linden had zero influence over who they drafted this weekend. Not because he doesn't care -- but because he has no idea.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:21 am 
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Logical Progression wrote:
As far as free agency goes I am a little more concerned. The last thing this team needs is Luongo version 2.0, an overpriced head case who is past his prime. Quite frankly, Luongo is a better goalie than Miller. At least he's won more. The Canucks are clearly not comfortable with their goaltending duo as it stands. But they need to go after young promising NHL proven talent with their cap space, deals like the one for Vey. I know, I know -- get in line. The problem is the business side. They need to sell some hope to the Aquilini's and the largely naive fan base. A couple of big names would do the trick and would help those season ticket sales, which are reported to be down 5%. My guess is more like 10-15%. By the way, there is no more waiting list for seasons tickets.


Luongo is greater than Miller, and one of Lack, Markstrom or Eriksson should be able to provide average goal tending. That's good enough, and if they all crap the bed we draft higher, I have no problem with that.

I think fans will accept a rebuild, they just need to be told it is what needs to be done. The Canucks just need to sell hope of a brighter tomorrow, which is why I was so disappointed with our first round choices. Not sure if Acquilini prefers money or the Stanley Cup though, that is the real question.


Logical Progression wrote:
I would bet that Trevor Linden had zero influence over who they drafted this weekend. Not because he doesn't care -- but because he has no idea.

Trevor should have zero influence, he doesn't need to micromanage. What he does need to do though is to set the organization philosophy ie// skill vs grit

He also needs to assess the ROI they bring. As Canucks Army has show recently, a simple algorithm based on CHL forwards and points has consistently out drafted the Canucks. They're simply not justifying their cost.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:04 pm 
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I have a hard time believe Benning made many of these picks, to be honest. The current NHL model is one where the GM has minimal impact on who the team actually picks since he's not directly involved in the scouting. Now, he was involved in Boston's process, but he might not have been too strong in his overruling this first go around. I expect a new scouting model will be in place for the 2014-15 season that will reflect Benning's actual preferences.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:20 pm 
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saskhab wrote:
I have a hard time believe Benning made many of these picks, to be honest. The current NHL model is one where the GM has minimal impact on who the team actually picks since he's not directly involved in the scouting. Now, he was involved in Boston's process, but he might not have been too strong in his overruling this first go around. I expect a new scouting model will be in place for the 2014-15 season that will reflect Benning's actual preferences.

But how hard is it to say no to your scouts -- who have a horrific track record -- when they come to you with a guy who simply doesn't score in junior? They should use late round picks on long-shot skill players, not guys with 100% certainty never to come close to the NHL. Sign those guys for free if you really want them.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:10 pm 
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Jyrki21 wrote:
saskhab wrote:
I have a hard time believe Benning made many of these picks, to be honest. The current NHL model is one where the GM has minimal impact on who the team actually picks since he's not directly involved in the scouting. Now, he was involved in Boston's process, but he might not have been too strong in his overruling this first go around. I expect a new scouting model will be in place for the 2014-15 season that will reflect Benning's actual preferences.

But how hard is it to say no to your scouts -- who have a horrific track record -- when they come to you with a guy who simply doesn't score in junior? They should use late round picks on long-shot skill players, not guys with 100% certainty never to come close to the NHL. Sign those guys for free if you really want them.


1. Benning was involved in the interview process, so he was certainly involved at least for the 1st rounders. After that probably not and that is the one hope that after the 1st round he simply deferred to the scouting team.
2. It's his job to at least give the overall organizational philosophy on picks. Saying to the team "size is nice but skill is better" is not that hard a guideline to give them for late round picks.
3. However Linden and Benning both have made noise that to play in the Pacific division the team needs to get bigger and tougher. Linden has also said he doesn't understand advanced stats. When you look at their actions so far, trading for Dorsett, and the size and lack of talent of their picks, its entirely possible we're seeing the future of the club and its not a club that values possession or putting the puck in the net. Not only will that never win a cup, worse its boring.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:12 pm 
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Oh, btw the Canuck's drafted their 1st Russian in 8 years. :shock: :D

How would you like to be the Canucks Russian scout, being ignored year after year after year. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:44 pm 
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Fogghorn wrote:
saskhab wrote:
McCann comes from such a good junior program, too. They're doing everything right there in the Soo. He may not be the most talented guy they could've taken but as far as intelligence, doing things right to help teams win, McCann has few equals.


He seems like a solid pick, probable 3rd line centre but.........with Barbashev, Ho-Sang and especially Scherbak I feel like they passed on some potentially really good players for the safe bet. Botchford quoted Benning today as saying that "they didn't consider any Russian's as they were looking for 'meat and potatoes' players.

Well I sure hope he knows what he is doing because there is no way Virtanen should have been in his top 12 that I can figure. It's strange, a couple years ago before I paid attention to the analytics side of it I would have been ecstatic with. Virtanen. Would have looked at the goals, the shot, the speed and figured the Nucks drew a stud who had the added local boy bonus.

Never would have looked at his quality of team mates, or considered that he had already matured into full man size with little room to improve in this regard where as Scherbak basically carried his team on his back, had to transition from Russian to WHL, and has plenty of room to fill out his long frame. Context of situation matters, and context indicates that Virtanen ain't as good a prospect as Scherbak much less Nylander or Ehlers. Meat and potatoes are good but fine dining is better.


Something from PiTB's draft thread on McCann:

Quote:
7:43 PM (HM) - PHILADELPHIA – With the 24th selection in the NHL draft, a pick the Canucks acquired in the Ryan Kesler trade earlier in the day, the club selected Jared McCann, a kid who wants to be the next Ryan Kesler.

Funny how that works out.

Asked what the Canucks liked about him, he responded, “My two-way game. I model my game after a guy like Ryan Kesler.”

It’s probably not the best day to invoke Kesler. (Another red flag: McCann also invoked Todd Bertuzzi, answering one question with “it is what it is”.)
McCann was asked to elaborate. Does he really like Kesler?

“I am a fan of his,” he responded. “I like the way he plays the game. He’s a two-way center man like I try to be. He’s not afraid to drop the gloves if necessary. I definitely try to be like him.”
According to a few people that follow the OHL closely, McCann is, and not just on the ice. He can be difficult, a little prickly, a little surly. “He has a bad attitude,” one scout noted. Another suggested it’s pretty strange for a kid ranked as highly as McCann is to be left off Hockey Canada’s Summer Development roster. “He clearly rubbed someone the wrong way,” I was told.
But he’s a very good hockey player, and as Kesler proved during his time here, there’s nothing wrong with a difficult person, so long as he’s difficult for you. And with a Kesler-sized hole in the roster, McCann and the Canucks might be a perfect match.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:56 pm 
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So the sports media are reporting that the Canucks have been in contact with Miller and he is receptive to coming to Vancouver. :fffffuck: ..............think I've used that emoticon more this weekend then the entire last year.

They really are intent on making the playoffs, hello Calgary model, although with more money to throw around. My crystal ball says 4 years of just making or missing the playoffs with 1st round exits until the Sedins contract expires then finally the rebuild they need. :(

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:14 pm 
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Ryan Miller seen with his wife in Vancouver today. Ugh.....

Hello LA Kings !!! They could become my team for the next four years.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:33 pm 
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Logical Progression wrote:
Ryan Miller seen with his wife in Vancouver today. Ugh.....

Hello LA Kings !!! They could become my team for the next four years.



lol, my thoughts exactly the last couple days, I've really been thinking about adopting a 2nd team to wait out the down time, and wondering how people like Chris18 manage to deal with the suffering. Then I realized its like the 5 stages of grief, I've moved through denial and anger, and ready to bargain by adopting a new team. Perhaps I just need to get through depression and learn to accept and laugh at my team. It's been a long time since the Keenan years, and I've forgotten how.

Gillis was never a joke, this was not the Loloilers or Laffs franchise, but with Miller and those asinine late round picks its quickly headed that way and I think I'm going to have to adapt to that and just find the humour in it all until the Linden era is done.

Although I sure like TB's drafting, Stevie you're tempting me.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:18 pm 
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Ryan Miller for $18 mil over 3 years. Absolutely hate this. Might be a marginal upgrade on Lack, but now what do we do with Markstrom and Eriksson? CA interviewed the very good Kevin Woodley on his thoughts, regarding Miller's style, ability to fit with goalie coach Melanson.

http://canucksarmy.com/2014/7/1/july-1st-preview-the-landscape-and-the-free-agent-targets

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:37 pm 
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Benning has signed Fenwick/Corsi super star Bobby Sanguetti for $600k, I like this. :viking:

http://canucksarmy.com/2014/7/1/canucks-sign-who-the-hell-is-bobby-sanguinetti

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:39 pm 
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Watching the Miller Benning presser, is Benning really short? Or Miller wearing platforms?

I know I shouldn't cry over the past and its not Benning's fault but damn it pulls at me that its not Lui.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:15 pm 
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Left Right

Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Tanev
Stanton Sanguinetti

Sbisa Corrado
Weber

That's not bad, as long as 2 of Sanguine, Sbisa, Corrado and Weber improve. Not totally unreasonable to expect.

It's sure nice to have that left right balance though

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:51 am 
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So apparently no one else was even particularly interested in Miller yet the Canuck's offered him $6 mil a year.

and here's Benning
Quote:
“Goaltending is a hard position. Goalies develop later. I don’t think you know what you have with a goalie until they are 26 or 27.”


and one more Benningism

Quote:
“If Ryan is our guy who is going to play the majority of the games, I think Eddie can look to him as a mentor,"


uhm.....Jim you know Lack is 26 and credibly demonstrated everything you could want from a goalie throughout his career?


If I was Lack I'd be asking for a trade, to anywhere he'd at least be allowed to be able to compete for the starting position and not be the designated men-tee before camp. At this point I think the best we can hope for is they both come in and have a great season and one of them gets traded.

Goalie controversy coming, you'd think one of Linden or Benning would be familiar enough with the Canuck's history of the last 3 years to try and avoid another goalie controversy.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:04 pm 
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Fogghorn wrote:
If I was Lack I'd be asking for a trade, to anywhere he'd at least be allowed to be able to compete for the starting position and not be the designated men-tee before camp. At this point I think the best we can hope for is they both come in and have a great season and one of them gets traded.

Goalie controversy coming, you'd think one of Linden or Benning would be familiar enough with the Canuck's history of the last 3 years to try and avoid another goalie controversy.


Lack is asking for something, and it doesn't appear to be a trade.

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Miller's response:

Quote:
Ryan Miller Verified account
‏@RyanMiller3039
“@eddielack: Hey @RyanMiller3039 I'm open for dinner:) #datenight” <rose> YES!!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:16 pm 
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Well Eddie appears to be a better person than I and 99% of the planet, just completely relaxed and goes with whatever comes along. Great quality, and great team mate but that makes it all the more galling, the whole goalie controversy of the last 3 years could have been way worse but Schneider, Lui and Eddie are all really good people who managed to keep it somewhat contained even though they were put into a situation not of their making.

If Eddie comes out and out performs Miller over the first half of the season and there is a pretty reasonable chance of that happening then there is the same media conversation, and the same fanbase questioning the wisdom of management on a daily basis.

This just didn't need to happen. Now they will probably have to trade Markstrom without even finding out what he can do, as Eriksson needs the reps in the AHL. I guess they could move Cannata to the ECHL.

The only way this goes well is if Miller plays well and Eddie sucks, and Eriksson and Markstrom both suck in the AHL, I just don't see all three of them doing that.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:35 pm 
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What happened to Markstrom? He was a big time prospect. Did he flame out in FL or not get a chance?

Here's his review from hockeysfuture, where he had an 8.5 talent score (=approaching elite talent)

Quote:
Talent Analysis

Markstrom is a tall, fluid goaltender with tremendous technique and composure who stays relaxed and cool under pressure. Markstrom plays a butterfly style with a good glove and has fine positioning and agility in net. His long legs can sometimes pose a problem by creating gaps as he drops to the butterfly, but experience will help him improve in that area. Markstrom rebounded last season from past knee injuries to prove his durability.


Future

Markstrom has the tools and the talent—and most importantly the focus and mental strength—to become a cornerstone netminder in the NHL.


http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/jacob_markstrom/

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:48 pm 
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When you hit the ice as hard as often as he has, your body takes a real beating.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:49 pm 
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hammer wrote:
What happened to Markstrom? He was a big time prospect. Did he flame out in FL or not get a chance?

Here's his review from hockeysfuture, where he had an 8.5 talent score (=approaching elite talent)

Quote:
Talent Analysis

Markstrom is a tall, fluid goaltender with tremendous technique and composure who stays relaxed and cool under pressure. Markstrom plays a butterfly style with a good glove and has fine positioning and agility in net. His long legs can sometimes pose a problem by creating gaps as he drops to the butterfly, but experience will help him improve in that area. Markstrom rebounded last season from past knee injuries to prove his durability.


Future

Markstrom has the tools and the talent—and most importantly the focus and mental strength—to become a cornerstone netminder in the NHL.


http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/jacob_markstrom/


We're not sure, only thing we do know is that the Canuck's goalie coach pretty much stripped down his technique and rebuilt him from the ground up last spring. He was excited, and I was interested to see what he could do as he had done a really good job with both Eddie, and Schneider and helped Lui somewhat. Markstrom is big and fits the mold of what Melansson likes to work with and seems to have the athleticism to be a great protege.

And that's part of the problem with Miller. He is the exact opposite of a Melanson type goalie, plays far out of the net, very reactive and similar to Jonathan Quick, he doesn't have the height and is old enough to probably not want to change his game significantly.

I think it also makes it easier on the defense and the backup when everyone plays a similar style. Kevin Woodley has pointed out that Miller is probably not the best fit for the Canucks present defensive style so does the team change to accommodate Miller or Miller the team? If he is coming in as the designated goalie then probably the team for Miller but then you have Lack and two AHL goalies all playing a deep crease style and presumably the farm team defensemen are all learning to accommodate that style as well. Then if they get called up they have to learn another style? Something that was so simple has quickly become a mess.

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