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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:18 am 
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Av-merican wrote:
On a side note, that Daniel injury didn't look good at all.

Apparently the ice was really bad and contributed to Daniel catching an edge and pulling a hamstring. Yesterday with the roof open there was better air circulation in the dome and much better ice. It really went downhill fast today. Rain in Vancouver in March! How novel!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:36 am 
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Av-merican wrote:
I'm sure Eddie understood why the fans booed, but no one ever wants to be the "other woman" in the relationship.


It sounds like Lou and Eddie actually do have a great relationship.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:13 am 
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Bosc wrote:
Av-merican wrote:
I'm sure Eddie understood why the fans booed, but no one ever wants to be the "other woman" in the relationship.


It sounds like Lou and Eddie actually do have a great relationship.


From every interview I've seen and every reporters comment I've read, Eddy is just incredibly affable, all positives, smiles and jokes. Everyone loves the guy. Part of the reason I thought he'd be such great trade bait for a team, not only a good goalie but a great locker room presence.

Instead they have the same pile of festering dung they had last year.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:27 pm 
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.412 | This is the Canucks’ winning percentage when outshooting their opponents. They’re 23rd in the category. It’s a damning stat for the club, since they’ve outshot their opponents this season more than they’ve been outshot, and it’s doing them no good. While their Corsi rate continues to be in the top 10 in the NHL (they’re 9th), meaning they outplay their opponents over games — usually a good indication that a team is good — they’re just not scoring goals, and unfortunately, that’s sort of how you win.


Still perplexed how this team can be this bad. Yes they've been injured but still its almost like they've had the voodoo cast on them. How does Burrows have 70+ shots and zero goals. It's absolutely statistically freakish.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:49 pm 
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Fogghorn wrote:
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.412 | This is the Canucks’ winning percentage when outshooting their opponents. They’re 23rd in the category. It’s a damning stat for the club, since they’ve outshot their opponents this season more than they’ve been outshot, and it’s doing them no good. While their Corsi rate continues to be in the top 10 in the NHL (they’re 9th), meaning they outplay their opponents over games — usually a good indication that a team is good — they’re just not scoring goals, and unfortunately, that’s sort of how you win.


Still perplexed how this team can be this bad. Yes they've been injured but still its almost like they've had the voodoo cast on them. How does Burrows have 70+ shots and zero goals. It's absolutely statistically freakish.


2010-2011: Vancouver power play was ranked 1st in the league.
2011-2012: Vancouver power play was ranked 4th in the league.
2012-2013: Vancouver power play was ranked 22nd in the league.
2013-2014: Vancouver power play is currently ranked 27th in the league. Only Calgary, Carolina, and Florida are worse.

The Holy Grail of fancy stats is shot quality. It's a hard thing to measure. I can't help but think the Keith hit on Daniel Sedin, which took place on March 21, 2012, has been a big reason behind the rapid decline of the VAN power play, and the current rut you see the Sedins and Burrows in. He may be throwing the puck on net a lot, but I wonder how well the Sedins are able to set him up now with a hampered Daniel, and how effective they are at drawing defenders to them and away from Burrows.

BTW, the ineffectiveness of the VAN power play is strange, even the first year following Ehrhoff's departure they were still very good, and the addition of Garrison should've only made it that much more effective. Is it really the decline of Daniel that's hurting it that much, or is something else off-kilter?

There's also the notion of sheltered minutes. The Sedins-Burrows line enjoyed almost exclusive offensive zone starts. This sounds kinda silly but is the added playing time and fewer sheltered minutes just plain wearing them out?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:24 am 
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Daniel's issues stemming from the concussion is plausible. His drop off since then has just been too dramatic to be just an aspect of age. The Globe and Mail did an article on this a week ago. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/daniel-sedins-slump-and-the-concussion-question/article17107221/

But Burrows issues seem to be more just a severe statistical aberration which does occur some times, however rare. He was never a 1st unit PP guy which always made his 30 goal years so much more impressive.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:23 am 
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Fogghorn wrote:
But Burrows issues seem to be more just a severe statistical aberration which does occur some times, however rare. He was never a 1st unit PP guy which always made his 30 goal years so much more impressive.


Well, there can just be those seasons where injuries and bad luck take their toll. He's getting somewhat favorable matchups, though not nearly as favorable as he used to. The two Alexes (Burrows and Edler) have the worst PDO on the team--in fact Burrows is an VERY low 915. He'll bounce back eventually, especially since he drives possession better than anyone else on the squad.

This is yet another instance where you'd like to see Booth finally step the hell up, but alas, not meant to be.

On a side note, why isn't Torts trusting Diaz more? He's proven he could handle tough matchups in Montreal. Might free someone else up (like Edler) to score a little.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:36 am 
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Av-merican wrote:
Fogghorn wrote:
But Burrows issues seem to be more just a severe statistical aberration which does occur some times, however rare. He was never a 1st unit PP guy which always made his 30 goal years so much more impressive.


Well, there can just be those seasons where injuries and bad luck take their toll. He's getting somewhat favorable matchups, though not nearly as favorable as he used to. The two Alexes (Burrows and Edler) have the worst PDO on the team--in fact Burrows is an VERY low 915. He'll bounce back eventually, especially since he drives possession better than anyone else on the squad.

This is yet another instance where you'd like to see Booth finally step the hell up, but alas, not meant to be.

On a side note, why isn't Torts trusting Diaz more? He's proven he could handle tough matchups in Montreal. Might free someone else up (like Edler) to score a little.
Because Bieksa and Tanev are back in the lineup from injury. If you recall, back end injuries faclitated this trade to begin with, hence the depth chart.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:11 am 
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Logical Progression wrote:
Av-merican wrote:
Fogghorn wrote:
But Burrows issues seem to be more just a severe statistical aberration which does occur some times, however rare. He was never a 1st unit PP guy which always made his 30 goal years so much more impressive.


Well, there can just be those seasons where injuries and bad luck take their toll. He's getting somewhat favorable matchups, though not nearly as favorable as he used to. The two Alexes (Burrows and Edler) have the worst PDO on the team--in fact Burrows is an VERY low 915. He'll bounce back eventually, especially since he drives possession better than anyone else on the squad.

This is yet another instance where you'd like to see Booth finally step the hell up, but alas, not meant to be.

On a side note, why isn't Torts trusting Diaz more? He's proven he could handle tough matchups in Montreal. Might free someone else up (like Edler) to score a little.
Because Bieksa and Tanev are back in the lineup from injury. If you recall, back end injuries faclitated this trade to begin with, hence the depth chart.


They've been playing with 7 dman, Diaz has done nothing wrong but it's a pretty good top 6 when healthy and he'll be in a tough spot trying to earn playing time and could even see time from the press box. Unlike Montreal it will be because there a better options ahead of him, not because the coach is an idiot.

And Booth and Kassian together have been really dominant in possession. Booth like Burrows and Danny all need to find a way to put the puck in the net. If the Loki of stats ever decides to take his thumb off these three then making a wild card should be no problem but as is......... :fffffuck:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:28 am 
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They absolutely need this game yet are playing like microwaved kraft dinner. Can't watch the last of the 3rd period as they kiss the playoffs goodbye. Nice to see Lack hasn't been fazed by the promotion thought. It bodes well.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:00 pm 
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Fogghorn wrote:
They absolutely need this game

In what universe? Even strictly mathematically they are mostly out of it now. Thankfully it seems ownership may be coming around to take a smart business approach.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:14 am 
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Jyrki21 wrote:
Fogghorn wrote:
They absolutely need this game

Thankfully it seems ownership may be coming around to take a smart business approach.
Not so sure about that. Word on the street is that Aquilini is still chasing some beloved playoff revenue and this may have factored into not moving Kesler at the deadline. Even if it's 4 and done. They have a lot of bills to pay primarily due to he and Gilles' monumental ineptitude as a pair over the years. See what happens when owners try to manage?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:26 am 
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I'm sorry, there's no way that's true about bills to pay unless he's struggling in areas outside the Canucks. He's had plenty of playoff revenue, just did a 50000 attendance game, sells out every night with high prices, got a 7% cap reduction, huge new TV deal money coming in... I get that playoff revenue is very valuable, but come on, they can't be in the game to have to guarantee playoff revenue every year or bust.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:35 am 
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saskhab wrote:
I'm sorry, there's no way that's true about bills to pay unless he's struggling in areas outside the Canucks. He's had plenty of playoff revenue, just did a 50000 attendance game, sells out every night with high prices, got a 7% cap reduction, huge new TV deal money coming in... I get that playoff revenue is very valuable, but come on, they can't be in the game to have to guarantee playoff revenue every year or bust.


Teams only get their normal gate/concession revenues from the "outdoor" events. The rest goes to the NHL revenue pool, I believe. But your point stands. They can't be hurting for playoff dough.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:43 am 
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saskhab wrote:
I'm sorry, there's no way that's true about bills to pay unless he's struggling in areas outside the Canucks. He's had plenty of playoff revenue, just did a 50000 attendance game, sells out every night with high prices, got a 7% cap reduction, huge new TV deal money coming in... I get that playoff revenue is very valuable, but come on, they can't be in the game to have to guarantee playoff revenue every year or bust.


And I think that the first two games of the playoffs are primarily dedicated to revenue sharing anyways.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:58 am 
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Bosc wrote:
saskhab wrote:
I'm sorry, there's no way that's true about bills to pay unless he's struggling in areas outside the Canucks. He's had plenty of playoff revenue, just did a 50000 attendance game, sells out every night with high prices, got a 7% cap reduction, huge new TV deal money coming in... I get that playoff revenue is very valuable, but come on, they can't be in the game to have to guarantee playoff revenue every year or bust.


Teams only get their normal gate/concession revenues from the "outdoor" events. The rest goes to the NHL revenue pool, I believe. But your point stands. They can't be hurting for playoff dough.
Point taken, but both statements are far too polarizing. It's not playoff revenue or bust and there is a difference between hurting for playoff dough and running a successful business and being committed to winning. I just can't see them throwing in the towel on the season despite this being the most pragmatic strategy from outside. Rebuilds alienate the average fan and cost money too. Playoffs are good for the brand. My point was that these factors could it impact a trade that could be made off season with ownership involved. My sense is that Aquilini loves the game but at the end of the day treats this as any successful business. And everyone knows Aquilini is a hands on owner. It wouldn't surprise me one bit in view of the rebuild coming. It's such a mess. You gotta wonder what the hell is going to happen with Gilles in the off season and hence Torts. It seems there are a lot more riding on the next 18 games than a "blow it up, rebuild and we'll get 'em in future years" mind set. I could be wrong though. Always being right is totally overrated. :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:13 pm 
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Fogghorn wrote:
saskhab wrote:
I'm sorry, there's no way that's true about bills to pay unless he's struggling in areas outside the Canucks. He's had plenty of playoff revenue, just did a 50000 attendance game, sells out every night with high prices, got a 7% cap reduction, huge new TV deal money coming in... I get that playoff revenue is very valuable, but come on, they can't be in the game to have to guarantee playoff revenue every year or bust.


And I think that the first two games of the playoffs are primarily dedicated to revenue sharing anyways.


I forgot about that. I think a chuck of all playoff revenues are shared.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:14 pm 
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Logical Progression wrote:
Bosc wrote:
saskhab wrote:
I'm sorry, there's no way that's true about bills to pay unless he's struggling in areas outside the Canucks. He's had plenty of playoff revenue, just did a 50000 attendance game, sells out every night with high prices, got a 7% cap reduction, huge new TV deal money coming in... I get that playoff revenue is very valuable, but come on, they can't be in the game to have to guarantee playoff revenue every year or bust.


Teams only get their normal gate/concession revenues from the "outdoor" events. The rest goes to the NHL revenue pool, I believe. But your point stands. They can't be hurting for playoff dough.
Point taken, but both statements are far too polarizing. It's not playoff revenue or bust and there is a difference between hurting for playoff dough and running a successful business and being committed to winning. I just can't see them throwing in the towel on the season despite this being the most pragmatic strategy from outside. Rebuilds alienate the average fan and cost money too. Playoffs are good for the brand. My point was that these factors could it impact a trade that could be made off season with ownership involved. My sense is that Aquilini loves the game but at the end of the day treats this as any successful business. And everyone knows Aquilini is a hands on owner. It wouldn't surprise me one bit in view of the rebuild coming. It's such a mess. You gotta wonder what the hell is going to happen with Gilles in the off season and hence Torts. It seems there are a lot more riding on the next 18 games than a "blow it up, rebuild and we'll get 'em in future years" mind set. I could be wrong though. Always being right is totally overrated. :lol:


Short term payoff vs long-term growth.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:41 pm 
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Logical Progression wrote:
Bosc wrote:
saskhab wrote:
I'm sorry, there's no way that's true about bills to pay unless he's struggling in areas outside the Canucks. He's had plenty of playoff revenue, just did a 50000 attendance game, sells out every night with high prices, got a 7% cap reduction, huge new TV deal money coming in... I get that playoff revenue is very valuable, but come on, they can't be in the game to have to guarantee playoff revenue every year or bust.


Teams only get their normal gate/concession revenues from the "outdoor" events. The rest goes to the NHL revenue pool, I believe. But your point stands. They can't be hurting for playoff dough.
Point taken, but both statements are far too polarizing. It's not playoff revenue or bust and there is a difference between hurting for playoff dough and running a successful business and being committed to winning. I just can't see them throwing in the towel on the season despite this being the most pragmatic strategy from outside. Rebuilds alienate the average fan and cost money too. Playoffs are good for the brand. My point was that these factors could it impact a trade that could be made off season with ownership involved. My sense is that Aquilini loves the game but at the end of the day treats this as any successful business. And everyone knows Aquilini is a hands on owner. It wouldn't surprise me one bit in view of the rebuild coming. It's such a mess. You gotta wonder what the hell is going to happen with Gilles in the off season and hence Torts. It seems there are a lot more riding on the next 18 games than a "blow it up, rebuild and we'll get 'em in future years" mind set. I could be wrong though. Always being right is totally overrated. :lol:


This is the confusing part, if they wanted to make the playoffs then I'd expect to see Jensen called up instead of Archibald, he's been playing really well and can score goals. And if they were really concerned about making the playoffs I'd also think that Lui would have been their go to guy but they traded him in favour of an untested rookie. Or they could have gone after Vanek or Hemsky which were relatively cheap options. Plus the schedule is so, so, so very soft from here on out that making the playoffs is still possible. However they have not done any of those things which would indicate to me they are not focused on making the playoffs.

I'm fine with that. Reload, reset, rebuild, whatever. But if that's what they're going to do then move some people, no more of the 'stay still gill' show but they didn't do that either. That confuses me as to whether they have a direction, and I've had that feeling since the 2010 run. Gillis saying way back then that they did not need to get bigger to play in the playoffs then drafting much bigger players. End of last season saying they were going to 'reset' the team and yet all he did was trade coaches with NY and trade Schneider for a pick and when questioned about it at the beginning of the season claiming that the coach change was the reset. Hell even the lie he made this week regarding sitting Lui for the Heritage classic because he had a trade in the works. The agent, Talon and Torts have all denied this to be true.

He's willing to lie to the fans to cover his ass and for a long time seems to be meandering along switching streams on organizational philosophy whenever something looks more interesting. I get that he has a difficult job and that I probably don't know about 90%+ of the relevant issues but I don't need to be lied to and I would think after a few years since the cup run I would be able to perceive some sense of purpose in direction. That's not too much to ask is it?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:51 pm 
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Fogghorn wrote:
Logical Progression wrote:
Bosc wrote:
saskhab wrote:
I'm sorry, there's no way that's true about bills to pay unless he's struggling in areas outside the Canucks. He's had plenty of playoff revenue, just did a 50000 attendance game, sells out every night with high prices, got a 7% cap reduction, huge new TV deal money coming in... I get that playoff revenue is very valuable, but come on, they can't be in the game to have to guarantee playoff revenue every year or bust.


Teams only get their normal gate/concession revenues from the "outdoor" events. The rest goes to the NHL revenue pool, I believe. But your point stands. They can't be hurting for playoff dough.
Point taken, but both statements are far too polarizing. It's not playoff revenue or bust and there is a difference between hurting for playoff dough and running a successful business and being committed to winning. I just can't see them throwing in the towel on the season despite this being the most pragmatic strategy from outside. Rebuilds alienate the average fan and cost money too. Playoffs are good for the brand. My point was that these factors could it impact a trade that could be made off season with ownership involved. My sense is that Aquilini loves the game but at the end of the day treats this as any successful business. And everyone knows Aquilini is a hands on owner. It wouldn't surprise me one bit in view of the rebuild coming. It's such a mess. You gotta wonder what the hell is going to happen with Gilles in the off season and hence Torts. It seems there are a lot more riding on the next 18 games than a "blow it up, rebuild and we'll get 'em in future years" mind set. I could be wrong though. Always being right is totally overrated. :lol:


This is the confusing part, if they wanted to make the playoffs then I'd expect to see Jensen called up instead of Archibald, he's been playing really well and can score goals. And if they were really concerned about making the playoffs I'd also think that Lui would have been their go to guy but they traded him in favour of an untested rookie. Or they could have gone after Vanek or Hemsky which were relatively cheap options. Plus the schedule is so, so, so very soft from here on out that making the playoffs is still possible. However they have not done any of those things which would indicate to me they are not focused on making the playoffs.

I'm fine with that. Reload, reset, rebuild, whatever. But if that's what they're going to do then move some people, no more of the 'stay still gill' show but they didn't do that either. That confuses me as to whether they have a direction, and I've had that feeling since the 2010 run. Gillis saying way back then that they did not need to get bigger to play in the playoffs then drafting much bigger players. End of last season saying they were going to 'reset' the team and yet all he did was trade coaches with NY and trade Schneider for a pick and when questioned about it at the beginning of the season claiming that the coach change was the reset. Hell even the lie he made this week regarding sitting Lui for the Heritage classic because he had a trade in the works. The agent, Talon and Torts have all denied this to be true.

He's willing to lie to the fans to cover his ass and for a long time seems to be meandering along switching streams on organizational philosophy whenever something looks more interesting. I get that he has a difficult job and that I probably don't know about 90%+ of the relevant issues but I don't need to be lied to and I would think after a few years since the cup run I would be able to perceive some sense of purpose in direction. That's not too much to ask is it?
Oh god -100% agree. There is no plan. As you say they are "meandering along switching streams on organizational philosophy whenever something looks more interesting". Regarding the playoffs: not one single decision (or non-decision) Gilles has made this year has suggested that they have a fucking clue what they are doing with this team. "Of course every decision we make is with the expectation to be in the playoffs".

There hasn't been a plan since Gilles got resigned on the heels of the Cup run. He is making it up as he goes along.

Regarding the Archibald call up. This has Torts written all over it. Gilles: "We are a collective and collaborate on all hockey related issues". But we all know Torts is hell bent on sticking with his antiquated fucking d-type system and loves big bodies and checker types. "The offence will come" - bullshit.

The Torts hiring was an unmitigated disaster. Wrong coach, wrong team. He burned them out and when injuries mounted, he explained away as a turn of events, the likes of which nobody has ever seen before. Umm okay....? His system does nothing to facilitate offence. He is coaching them outdated playoff system but when you team can't even get into the fucking playoffs, something's amiss. The Sedins haven't scored A SINGLE GOAL THIS ENTIRE YEAR! Burrows may never score a goal again in his ENTIRE LIFE.

I was a big supporter of Torts when he first arrived despite being somewhat miffed by passing on Lindy Ruff. But Torts has to go. He hasn't evolved as a person nor a hockey mind. He is in year 1 of his 4 year contract. Is he the appropriate coach for a rebuild? Something's not quite right in this pool of decision making.

Also how does Gilles expect to rebuild the team around the Sedins? The have brand new contracts and NTC's up the ying yang. But would it be fair to them to keep around for a total rebuild? Would they even want this? Veteran leadership I guess. I don't think Gilles even has a plan and is just making it up as he goes along. The demand for a rebuild came much sooner than anyone expected.

The Heritage Classic was an unmitigated PR disaster and Torts decision to start Lack facilitated the Luongo trade. Gilles publicly refutes the timeline of the proceedings when both player agent and player confirm this was never the case.

Gilles trades Schneider and Luongo for the future Horvat etc. yet sign the Sedins this year? The Kesler situation was just weird and sort of came out of the blue. Speculation is that the asking price kept changing right up to the trade deadline. Duthie reports that Anaheim made the most serious run for him but fell short and didn't have time to make contingency plans.

Attendance is down. Nobody wants to admit it but it's true.

Good luck Gilles.


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