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 Post subject: Re: What Now? The Roster
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:17 pm 
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Best goalie the Canucks have ever had, total class act. Wish it could have ended better but glad he gets his wish to return to Florida.


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 Post subject: Re: What Now? The Roster
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:02 pm 
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Pray Luongo doesn't retire in 2021, folks.

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 Post subject: Re: What Now? The Roster
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:59 pm 
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Av-merican wrote:
Pray Luongo doesn't retire in 2021, folks.

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Fucking Buttman, all they had to do was close the loophole, there was never a need to be vindictive about it. He got his nose out of joint and made the franchise pay for it, but more importantly is making the fans pay for it and that's something the President of the NHL should care about more than spite.


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 Post subject: Re: What Now? The Roster
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:41 pm 
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Matthias on the radio, comments:

Happy to be going to a team in playoff contention, not used to this
Has been hoping for a trade for over a year
Has been through 3 owners, 3 GM's and 4 coaches since he's been in Florida.....wtf, he's only 26. :haha:


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 Post subject: Re: What Now? The Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:37 am 
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Yeah stick a fork in them....Wonder if Gillis can save his job making deals now or if he's just going to screw his successor


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 Post subject: Re: What Now? The Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:03 am 
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CanuckinOz wrote:
Yeah stick a fork in them....Wonder if Gillis can save his job making deals now or if he's just going to screw his successor


The whole reason the Canucks did a 180 and dealt Schneider was because the owner was unwilling to eat salary, right? So now they've dealt both goalies and ate salary. I don't see how he avoids the axe at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: What Now? The Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:45 am 
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Well if these young centers the Nucks have been acquiring can't play hockey they'll make a pretty good pickup basketball team. Guance 6'2"; Matthias 6'4"; Lain 6'6". The team has certainly focused on getting bigger since the 2010 Stanley Cup we'll see if it leads to better.


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 Post subject: Re: What Now? The Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:05 am 
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Av-merican wrote:
CanuckinOz wrote:
Yeah stick a fork in them....Wonder if Gillis can save his job making deals now or if he's just going to screw his successor


The whole reason the Canucks did a 180 and dealt Schneider was because the owner was unwilling to eat salary, right? So now they've dealt both goalies and ate salary. I don't see how he avoids the axe at this point.


I said after last season that if we didn't get farther than the 1st round he'd be gone, and now we aren't even going to be in the playoffs. The thing is though do you want someone you're going to get rid of making these deals now?!


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 Post subject: Re: What Now? The Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:48 am 
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CanuckinOz wrote:
Av-merican wrote:
CanuckinOz wrote:
Yeah stick a fork in them....Wonder if Gillis can save his job making deals now or if he's just going to screw his successor


The whole reason the Canucks did a 180 and dealt Schneider was because the owner was unwilling to eat salary, right? So now they've dealt both goalies and ate salary. I don't see how he avoids the axe at this point.


I said after last season that if we didn't get farther than the 1st round he'd be gone, and now we aren't even going to be in the playoffs. The thing is though do you want someone you're going to get rid of making these deals now?!


They can't axe him now and put the interim guy in charge. That'd be even crazier than Buffalo getting rid of Regier right after he traded the team's best player. The offseason is a perfect time to unload him and bring in someone new now that there is some cap room to play with.

To be honest while I think Gillis will be fired, I'm not entirely sure he should be fired. But right now his big failures are gutting the team, especially the fact that the Canucks' drafting and development is no better than it was before. Regardless of whether he stays or goes, there needs to be an organizational gutting.


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 Post subject: Re: What Now? The Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:02 am 
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Av-merican wrote:
CanuckinOz wrote:
Av-merican wrote:
CanuckinOz wrote:
Yeah stick a fork in them....Wonder if Gillis can save his job making deals now or if he's just going to screw his successor


The whole reason the Canucks did a 180 and dealt Schneider was because the owner was unwilling to eat salary, right? So now they've dealt both goalies and ate salary. I don't see how he avoids the axe at this point.


I said after last season that if we didn't get farther than the 1st round he'd be gone, and now we aren't even going to be in the playoffs. The thing is though do you want someone you're going to get rid of making these deals now?!


They can't axe him now and put the interim guy in charge. That'd be even crazier than Buffalo getting rid of Regier right after he traded the team's best player. The offseason is a perfect time to unload him and bring in someone new now that there is some cap room to play with.

To be honest while I think Gillis will be fired, I'm not entirely sure he should be fired. But right now his big failures are gutting the team, especially the fact that the Canucks' drafting and development is no better than it was before. Regardless of whether he stays or goes, there needs to be an organizational gutting.


Agreed, ownership should leave him in, but keep an eye on trades and be ready to veto them if they're all short term. Let him have the rest of the season and see if the team can squeak into the playoffs.

On the other hand Gillman as an interim would not be that bad a choice. He maybe should even get the nod for full term GM


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 Post subject: Re: What Now? The Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:33 am 
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Fogghorn wrote:
Agreed, ownership should leave him in, but keep an eye on trades and be ready to veto them if they're all short term. Let him have the rest of the season and see if the team can squeak into the playoffs.

On the other hand Gillman as an interim would not be that bad a choice. He maybe should even get the nod for full term GM


Not sure you can take that much time on deadline day. GM needs to operate without a handcuff. Just tell him who he can and can't trade and let him loose. Gillis has at least proven he can get a good return on a deal.


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 Post subject: Re: What Now? The Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:49 am 
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Av-merican wrote:
Fogghorn wrote:
Agreed, ownership should leave him in, but keep an eye on trades and be ready to veto them if they're all short term. Let him have the rest of the season and see if the team can squeak into the playoffs.

On the other hand Gillman as an interim would not be that bad a choice. He maybe should even get the nod for full term GM


Not sure you can take that much time on deadline day. GM needs to operate without a handcuff. Just tell him who he can and can't trade and let him loose. Gillis has at least proven he can get a good return on a deal.


Won't take more than a few minutes for owner approval, if it is more complex than that then its better to not make the deal. (this assumes they are intending to fire Gillis)


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 Post subject: Re: What Now? The Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:57 pm 
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I don't understand for the life of me why the cap recapture penalty would get worse the more a player plays out his contract in good faith? You're incentivizing early retirement, which was precisely the circumvention problem with long contracts to begin with...? It's utterly unprincipled. Shouldn't it be worse if a guy plays 66% of his contract than 99%? What happens if he retires ten minutes early? Like a four billion dollar cap recapture penalty? (Yes I know that's not how it works).

I don't think Gillis will be fired this offseason -- he's Aquilini's guy. And if you put the emotion aside, most of his decisions have made sense when you consider the conditions at the time he made them. Taken together the goalie saga is a travesty, but (i) you can't solve the summer-of-2013 issue by forcing a deal that didn't become available until 2014, and (ii) the team needs to rebuild anyway, and despite the fact that I adore Cory Schneider, they probably need prospects more at this stage anyway. Even if by some miracle the team is competitive next year and neither Läck nor Markström (nor Eriksson) can get the job done, decent goalies can be had cheaply these days.

And moreover, I can see wanting Gillis gone last year after Schneider was traded. But that's a sunk cost -- what about yesterday changed anything? Luongo didn't want to stick around long term, so simply keeping him as a starter through his declining years wasn't an option, even if it was smart. There was also nothing better to be had for him in a trade because of his contract. Gillis did nothing wrong yesterday, and in fact got a surprisingly good return for a bad situation.

Also, he's not going to make dumb short-term deals now -- the team is essentially eliminated at this point, Daniel is injured, and they have an extremely rare opportunity to be a deadline seller with a very movable piece. Know when the last time that happened was? 2000. Yes, 2000. I would hope Aquilini would be fired as owner by, like, the premier of BC if the team made moves to try to qualify this year. And they won't.

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 Post subject: Re: What Now? The Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:16 pm 
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I can not believe we didn't make a significant deal today


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 Post subject: Re: What Now? The Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:29 pm 
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CanuckinOz wrote:
I can not believe we didn't make a significant deal today

Most teams don't make more than one. Unless you're gutting your entire organization like Buffalo was.

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 Post subject: Re: What Now? The Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:49 pm 
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I don't really see moving someone who's wanted out for 2 years as a significant move somehow. I know given the quality of the player I should but when you've got someone else who wants out and basically have a bidding war supposedly going on for him why don't you move him? Maybe when I have more details I'll understand - but I doubt it. Very ready to move on.


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 Post subject: Re: What Now? The Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:17 pm 
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CanuckinOz wrote:
I don't really see moving someone who's wanted out for 2 years as a significant move somehow. I know given the quality of the player I should but when you've got someone else who wants out and basically have a bidding war supposedly going on for him why don't you move him? Maybe when I have more details I'll understand - but I doubt it. Very ready to move on.

The offseason deals will be better for a guy like Kesler. They shouldn't have to retain salary. Almost every deal today teams were retaining salary because they were up against the cap. I'd guess Gillis didn't like the offers because of this.

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 Post subject: Re: What Now? The Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:01 pm 
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saskhab wrote:
CanuckinOz wrote:
I don't really see moving someone who's wanted out for 2 years as a significant move somehow. I know given the quality of the player I should but when you've got someone else who wants out and basically have a bidding war supposedly going on for him why don't you move him? Maybe when I have more details I'll understand - but I doubt it. Very ready to move on.

The offseason deals will be better for a guy like Kesler. They shouldn't have to retain salary. Almost every deal today teams were retaining salary because they were up against the cap. I'd guess Gillis didn't like the offers because of this.


Gotta disagree. Whatever benefit there is regarding more teams having salary cap room are offset due to the fact the acquiring team will only be sure of having his services for one playoff run instead of two. He's a depreciating asset.

And the Nucks are almost certain to not make the playoffs, but Kesler will probably help improve their win totals which will decrease the potential draft position.

Gillis dithers around, he got lucky to inherit the team just at the right moment when Kesler, Bieksa, Sedins and Burrows all matured and they had just acquired Luongo. He has ridden the coattails of the work done by Nonis and Burke for years


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 Post subject: Re: What Now? The Roster
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:21 am 
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Fogghorn wrote:
saskhab wrote:
CanuckinOz wrote:
I don't really see moving someone who's wanted out for 2 years as a significant move somehow. I know given the quality of the player I should but when you've got someone else who wants out and basically have a bidding war supposedly going on for him why don't you move him? Maybe when I have more details I'll understand - but I doubt it. Very ready to move on.

The offseason deals will be better for a guy like Kesler. They shouldn't have to retain salary. Almost every deal today teams were retaining salary because they were up against the cap. I'd guess Gillis didn't like the offers because of this.


Gotta disagree. Whatever benefit there is regarding more teams having salary cap room are offset due to the fact the acquiring team will only be sure of having his services for one playoff run instead of two. He's a depreciating asset.

And the Nucks are almost certain to not make the playoffs, but Kesler will probably help improve their win totals which will decrease the potential draft position.

Gillis dithers around, he got lucky to inherit the team just at the right moment when Kesler, Bieksa, Sedins and Burrows all matured and they had just acquired Luongo. He has ridden the coattails of the work done by Nonis and Burke for years


I don't think it was dithering on Kesler. It looks like Anaheim was going the hardest for Kesler and was willing to throw gobs of picks at the Canucks for him, but wasn't willing to give up a roster player. When you're talking about a big center with speed and skill to spare and one of the best 2-way players in the game I don't blame him for holding out for something better. He'll get it in the offseason. I guarantee you once some teams, like Philly, free themselves of some contracts there will be more bidders and higher prices for his services. Like you said, he's signed to a very reasonable deal. You never know...someone might even overpay.

And having Kesler or no Kesler won't have a real effect on the "tank" from here on out. There's not many games left to play.

It's too bad Gillis let the Luongo/Schneider fiasco effectively unravel all the good work he did in Vancouver, but that failure is his, and his alone. But it didn't help that the team got increasingly brittle and he lost his best defensive prospect by a mile to a tragic accident. A combination of bad luck, bad moves, and bad drafting did him in. I suppose if McPhee was allowed to fail twice, so should Gillis (I still think he's a much smarter GM than Nonis).

I actually rooted for the Canucks in the Finals (and that will be the one and only time I will ever do so). It was such an unconventionally-built team and Vigneault utilized it to perfection, leading to a damn near-perfect regular season. Hopefully the retool is quick and (relatively) painless. I suppose if there's a time to tank, it's next season.


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 Post subject: Re: What Now? The Roster
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:57 am 
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http://www.ocregister.com/articles/duck ... esler.html

Quote:
Murray said he “put into play” any of the six picks he has in the first two rounds for the next two drafts. Four of those are this year, with the Ducks having two selections in the first round as prime trading chips.

Some of the Ducks’ top young forward prospects – presumably Emerson Etem and Rickard Rakell among them – were on the table. Vancouver wanted a roster player to replace Kesler and Murray wasn’t going there.


Quote:
Murray said he was left “confused” that his offers weren’t enough for Kesler, who reportedly wanted to be moved.


I just don't understand how Bob Murray continues to succeed as an NHL GM when he's this dumb. Hey Bob, maybe, JUST MAYBE, Vancouver was a tad reluctant to deal Kesler to a division rival. Some more sweetening of the pot might have gotten it done.

So he essentially dealt a top-line bargain player in Penner who was a perfect fit with the team (and on a below-average possession squad was one of the few players who drove play) for nothing to clear cap room for a deal that never came. Given that Anaheim is a budget team I don't understand at all why he'd deal away a guy who was providing him with supreme value, and then not do what needed to be done to finalize the deal he cleared cap room to make.


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