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 Post subject: Manny Malhotra thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:35 am 
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http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2013/02/18 ... -malhotra/

Interesting viewpoint here: Could this be the worst kind of cap manipulation or a sincere attempt to prevent long-term injury for a great team guy?

IMO, I believe GMMG when he says he made the call with Malhotra's long term health in mind. No player willingly retires at 32 in this day and age. And I disagree with the perspective that it should be Malhotra's call whether he retires or not. Again, he's a professional hockey player and has been one for at least 14 years of his life; he will want to play no matter what. And if at the end of his contract, Manny decides he still has something left in the tank, then he can do so; he's no longer Canuck property. Until then, the Canucks SHOULD hold him back if they believe he could risk more serious and permanent injury knowing the extent of his eye injury. We can't forget what happened to Wayne Babych or Rick Rypien - can't put the team's needs above the player's health...


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:41 am 
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Disagree tCL. He's an adult and should be allowed to make his own decisions about his own welfare whether the team agrees or not. He also knows his exact condition better than anyone else as he is the only one living with it. He may choose to delude himself but that is his choice, he's not a child. Canucks should not play him if they disagree but they should be letting him go if that is his request.

Not sure I understand the reference to Rypien, seems to me the team worked really hard to help him and did put his needs first.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:11 pm 
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Fogghorn wrote:
Not sure I understand the reference to Rypien, seems to me the team worked really hard to help him and did put his needs first.

Rypien was employed by the Jets, was he not? Not certain if they realized his mental state at that time or if they just ignored it...


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:29 pm 
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the Cunning Linguist wrote:
Fogghorn wrote:
Not sure I understand the reference to Rypien, seems to me the team worked really hard to help him and did put his needs first.

Rypien was employed by the Jets, was he not? Not certain if they realized his mental state at that time or if they just ignored it...


The Canucks gave him time off to deal with his issues, and I thought I read at one time Gillis took Kevin Bieksa with him to personally visit Rypien at his home. I don't think the Canucks did anything to ignore Rypien's issues.

At the time of his death though, yes, he was employed by the Jets.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:42 pm 
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I wonder if their experience with Rypien has made GMMG & co. much more conservative in their handling of Malhotra. They listened to Rypien when he said he was ready to return to play and allowed him to play out the remainder of his contract here.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:43 pm 
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the Cunning Linguist wrote:
Fogghorn wrote:
Not sure I understand the reference to Rypien, seems to me the team worked really hard to help him and did put his needs first.

Rypien was employed by the Jets, was he not? Not certain if they realized his mental state at that time or if they just ignored it...


Ahh, that's what you were referencing, thought you meant the Nucks. He had just signed as a free agent with the Jets. I'm not sure the Jets were even aware, it doesn't seem like something they'd be legally allowed to ask. Although I suppose his agent would have had to disclose the reason behind his personal leave the season before anyone would have risked signing him. That's a pretty hard thing to place on the Jets though as they'd only just signed him.

I mean no offense here tCL but don't you think an individual with mental health issues is perhaps a very, very different case then one such as Manny who perhaps is in emotional denial but also perhaps actually understands his condition and limits better than Gillis and anyone else.

I would say that personal self responsibility should be assumed unless there is some verifiable record that would indicate they are not capable, mental illness, drugs, alcohol etc. In the Manny case there is a difference of opinion. The individual with the most accurate information available on Manny's condition is Manny. We have two choices, assume he is not emotionally capable of accurately assessing his ability which is possible or assume since he has the best information he's making the best decision for himself. These things are always tough but I gave up a long time ago believing I knew what is best for others. At the root of it it's arrogant, I make my suggestions and then step back and let friends and family pursue the course they perceive to be best. It's what I'd want for them to do for me, so how can I deny it to others.

I wonder if Mattias Ohlund had his injury today would he have had a career?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:53 pm 
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Apparently in the offseason, GMMG and AV went over some video with Malhotra that showed his eyesight had indeed made him very vulnerable, specifically with reference to Heatley and that perhaps if that had been Clutterbuck, Malhotra might be out for the season or longer with a concussion - the implication being that due to his diminished vision, he had repeatedly put himself in physical jeopardy. Add to that his diminshed effectiveness outside the faceoff dot, and you have a player who is an injury waiting to happen with fairly limited utility. From a team perspective, Malhotra can still win faceoffs and I'm sure AV can use him situationally to the team's benefit, but MG felt the risks outweighed the rewards... Don't get me wrong, I loved what Malhotra gives them and how we enabled Kesler to focus on offense. But I just don't think it's appropriate to allow a player to play for your team if you know he may be risking his long-term health more than others.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:08 pm 
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the Cunning Linguist wrote:
But I just don't think it's appropriate to allow a player to play for your team if you know he may be risking his long-term health more than others.


Absolutely, GMMG has to do what's best for his organization, that's self responsibility. But that is a different thing than not allowing Manny self responsibility to pursue his own options with other organizations which was the whole point of the PITB article.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:25 pm 
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The Jets, with a ton of people left over from running the Manitoba Moose, should have had some familiarity with Rypien's mental health, I would think. It's a moot issue, though. He killed himself before training camp started and never really represented the Jets in any professional capacity. His teammates wouldn't have really known him yet.

Yeah, this Manny thing is just bizarre. But the Canucks don't have to play him or even waive him. They should buy him out, though I suppose Manny could then file a medical grievance about the buyout.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:38 pm 
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saskhab wrote:
The Jets, with a ton of people left over from running the Manitoba Moose, should have had some familiarity with Rypien's mental health, I would think. It's a moot issue, though. He killed himself before training camp started and never really represented the Jets in any professional capacity. His teammates wouldn't have really known him yet.

Yeah, this Manny thing is just bizarre. But the Canucks don't have to play him or even waive him. They should buy him out, though I suppose Manny could then file a medical grievance about the buyout.


The bits of info we're getting is he wants out. Wants the right to play somewhere else. The Canucks are happy to pay him (well insurance will pay mostly) and would like him to move into coaching with the team. They're making a pretty fair offer to him but he still feels he can play.

And you're right about the Moose/Jets connection, never thought about it that way.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:53 am 
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http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion ... afety.html

Quote:
2. There is a lot of debate as to why Vancouver forced veteran forward Manny Malhotra to sit. But a couple of sources, including one player (not Bieksa) who told me to look through Malhotra's second-last game, a 4-1 victory over Minnesota. It's been reported that there was one play where Dany Heatley, a former teammate, could have clobbered him but let up. I couldn't find that one, although I did find two other situations where Malhotra carried into dangerous spots: one comes about 30 seconds in (Clayton Stoner could have gone for the hit); the other is at approximately 13:10 of the third period (Matt Cullen). Players said Malhotra seemed unsure of himself with the puck, so he looked down at it a lot more than normal.


Not sure if Heatley was being nice or just his usual lazy self.

In all seriousness, if his peripheral vision is jacked to the point where he can't see the puck without looking down, he's done as a hockey player. Sad.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:11 am 
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http://www.theprovince.com/sports/hocke ... story.html

Manny speaks for the first time since he was sidelined by GMMG. I understand the Fogg's point, but given Crosby's issue (pre-existing history of concussions makes him essentially uninsurable), I wonder if this act by GMMG (intentionally sidelining him to avoid the possibility of injury given evidence that Manny is more vulnerable than most due to diminished peripheral vision) might also influence Manny's insurability going forward.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:02 am 
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the Cunning Linguist wrote:
http://www.theprovince.com/sports/hockey/canucks-hockey/Vancouver+Canucks+Malhotra+shocked+ready+stop/8025584/story.html

Manny speaks for the first time since he was sidelined by GMMG. I understand the Fogg's point, but given Crosby's issue (pre-existing history of concussions makes him essentially uninsurable), I wonder if this act by GMMG (intentionally sidelining him to avoid the possibility of injury given evidence that Manny is more vulnerable than most due to diminished peripheral vision) might also influence Manny's insurability going forward.


Insurance policy would be for the term of the contract. There wouldnt be an increase until next contract.

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