OffThePost.org

(Generation III)
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:14 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 91 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:20 pm 
Offline
King of the One-Liner
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:40 pm
Posts: 5448
Location: Too deep in crease.
If Nylander does not want out of Toronto he may regret giving the Leafs offense a chance to see how it clicks with out him.

Bridge and trade for defensive help.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:43 pm 
Offline
The Bird is the Word, yet the Word ≥ the Bird

Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:40 pm
Posts: 3076
Hounsy wrote:
I really think the Leafs are willing to drive this one of the cliff and wipe out his season.
Wow what a mess. Apparently Dubas is saying that players need to make sacrifices for the team if they intend to compete for a Stanley Cup. Suppose he is talking to Nylander and Marner, but not to Matthews who should garner $12-12.5 M next year.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:09 am 
Offline
King of the One-Liner
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:40 pm
Posts: 5448
Location: Too deep in crease.
I suspect he is talking to all RFA's as it all adds up. Getting 500k less per Marner, Nylander, and Matthews would be awesome but picking up a few hundred per as well for guys like Kapanen, Johnsson, Brown, and Dermott would add up as well.

Tough for Nylander as he is the example right now and just see no way the Leafs can bend and yet he is the most obvious choice to get moved and not be around on that team he took a hair cut to allow for them to be more competitive.

This is why maybe they just need to all step back and drop the long term deal and just bridge with the expectation of an eventual trade.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:19 am 
Offline
The Bird is the Word, yet the Word ≥ the Bird

Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:40 pm
Posts: 3076
Apparently Nylander camp aren't considering a bridge deal at this stage and they are standing firm at 8 years. 5 years seems equitable but not if you don't have a dance partner. Heard the CBA states that if no deal is done by 1 December, then Nylander loses the year, but not if he does a signing bonus structure much like Tavares did.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/279 ... m-nylander


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:45 am 
Offline
Finally figured out how to change this!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:54 pm
Posts: 11619
What's his trade value? He's a hold out, like his father, so teams know he has the potential to be a huge pain in the ass. If I'm looking to trade for him, I only want a long term deal, since I don't want him pulling this again after a bridge deal. He's only 22, so a 7-8 year deal would be a good idea for the team anyway, as even $8 million could be a good deal for a player like him down the road with the Cap going up.

But I think Dubas is sniffing some serious amounts of glue if he thinks ALL the RFAs are going to be willing to take team friendly deals after he gave Tavares $11 million. I get that's what he wants, but it's just not realistic. Obviously I'm biased, but Dubas likely created Cap hell for himself with the Tavares deal.

_________________
Posting your political views on social media is like sticking your head up your ass & whispering: You're just as likely to change someone's mind, and you'll always come out looking like a shithead.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:29 am 
Offline
King of the One-Liner
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:40 pm
Posts: 5448
Location: Too deep in crease.
The thing is they are all RFA's and with out arbitration and most believe SJ and Islanders offered more money to Tavares so do not think Tavares sets the market on RFA guys. Matthews has leverage as they just can not have him in the lineup he is their best player and the one I think any offer sheet would have to be matched and I expect him to land somewhere between Eichel and McDavid but then if that is the case 11 million is team friendly.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:53 am 
Offline
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:37 am
Posts: 26101
Chris18 wrote:
What's his trade value? He's a hold out, like his father, so teams know he has the potential to be a huge pain in the ass. If I'm looking to trade for him, I only want a long term deal, since I don't want him pulling this again after a bridge deal. He's only 22, so a 7-8 year deal would be a good idea for the team anyway, as even $8 million could be a good deal for a player like him down the road with the Cap going up.

But I think Dubas is sniffing some serious amounts of glue if he thinks ALL the RFAs are going to be willing to take team friendly deals after he gave Tavares $11 million. I get that's what he wants, but it's just not realistic. Obviously I'm biased, but Dubas likely created Cap hell for himself with the Tavares deal.


He's a high-end top line forward who can play wing or center, I'd say his value is pretty high.

In the end talent wins out over everything. Even if they get the "pain in the ass" label there'll be teams lining up to take him on and pay him accordingly. And most every team that traded away his old man ended up regretting it (the frickin' Blackhawks dealt him to Washington for Chris Simon and Andrei Nikolishin).

I would like to see this end amicably. I liked Dubas's moxie when he said flat-out in the 31 Thoughts podcast "We can, and we will." when asked if they can fit Nylander and everyone else under the cap in the wake of the Tavares deal.

We'll see what happens if this lingers on for another month. If the Leafs win out then I think his leverage is severely weakened and he opts for the bridge deal.

There's been a push to change the language around "holdouts," which is understandable. It always seems to put the onus on the player to sign whatever's offered to him.

Colorado is likely watching this very closely. Whatever Nylander signs for may affect what happens when it's time to negotiate Mikko Rantanen's new deal.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:12 am 
Offline
The Bird is the Word, yet the Word ≥ the Bird

Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:40 pm
Posts: 3076
Come to think of it $8.5M-$9M seems fair market value in light of the Tavares signing. Agree with Chris, do an 8 year deal at around that and move him -- it seems the relationship is getting more sour by the day.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:45 am 
Offline
King of the One-Liner
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:40 pm
Posts: 5448
Location: Too deep in crease.
Logical Progression wrote:
Come to think of it $8.5M-$9M seems fair market value in light of the Tavares signing. Agree with Chris, do an 8 year deal at around that and move him -- it seems the relationship is getting more sour by the day.


For Nylander? Marner next year I could see ending up there, but while Nylander is good he is not dominant good and that is what that kinda money goes too. He is a sixty point winger, Leaf fans loved to claim he could be a center but just do not see it in his game. 6.5-7 is fair and 6-6.5 team friendly. Over 7 is too much for team and under 6 is too little for player is how I break it down.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:44 pm 
Offline
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:37 am
Posts: 26101
No, he shouldn't get Draisaitl money. And Draisaitl shouldn't have gotten Draisaitl money. One incompetent GM should not set the market for the league.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:11 pm 
Offline
The Bird is the Word, yet the Word ≥ the Bird

Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:40 pm
Posts: 3076
Pokecheque wrote:
No, he shouldn't get Draisaitl money. And Draisaitl shouldn't have gotten Draisaitl money. One incompetent GM should not set the market for the league.
Agreed. Guess my point is that there are a tonne of incompetent GM's who would happily pay Draisaitl money for Nylander, hence the standoff and the sign and trade scenario. We are talking market value. Whether he is worth it is another question. He'll surely fetch at least $7M-$7.5 on the open market, non?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:19 pm 
Offline
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:37 am
Posts: 26101
Logical Progression wrote:
Agreed. Guess my point is that there are a tonne of incompetent GM's who would happily pay Draisaitl money for Nylander, hence the standoff and the sign and trade scenario. We are talking market value. Whether he is worth it is another question. All this being said my understanding is that the Leafs are NOT prepared to pay more than $6.5M. is this incorrect?


I think they want him at that rate for a bridge deal, yes. Maybe they meet in the middle and do some five year deal or something for 7 or 7.5 but it's a pretty wide gulf between player/agent and team.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:59 pm 
Offline
King of the One-Liner
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:40 pm
Posts: 5448
Location: Too deep in crease.
last year Ehlers signed 7years @ 6million and Pasternak was 6 years @ 6.67. I believe if the Leafs sit hard on that range say 6 @ 6.325 then he will have to accept it or go play in another league. It is low but not with out precedent to say it is unfair. I suspect the agent has over promised and is just avoiding facing the inevitable under deliver. Draisaitl was over paid with one good season but even that was far better than any season Nylander and was far more established at center.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:12 pm 
Offline
The Bird is the Word, yet the Word ≥ the Bird

Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:40 pm
Posts: 3076
Who would you rather have on your roster - Marner or Nylander?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:38 pm 
Offline
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:37 am
Posts: 26101
Logical Progression wrote:
Who would you rather have on your roster - Marner or Nylander?


Marner, but I still want Nylander.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:16 am 
Offline
Finally figured out how to change this!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:54 pm
Posts: 11619
Hounsy wrote:
The thing is they are all RFA's and with out arbitration and most believe SJ and Islanders offered more money to Tavares so do not think Tavares sets the market on RFA guys. Matthews has leverage as they just can not have him in the lineup he is their best player and the one I think any offer sheet would have to be matched and I expect him to land somewhere between Eichel and McDavid but then if that is the case 11 million is team friendly.


All reports I've read said the Sharks were willing to offer Tavares up to $13 million/year, although it didn't say how many years. I'd imagine 7, as that's what everyone knew it would take to land him.
Also everything I've read has said the Isles offered 8 years @ $11.375 million, while he took the Leafs offer of 7 years @ $11 million/. So he left $14 million on the table to go to the Leafs. I'm sure he'll make that up in endorsements in TO.

I know he didn't go to college, but if he really is dumb enough to believe that his $11 million/year contract wouldn't make other guys on the team want more, he's far dumber than I thought was possible.

_________________
Posting your political views on social media is like sticking your head up your ass & whispering: You're just as likely to change someone's mind, and you'll always come out looking like a shithead.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:18 am 
Offline
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:37 am
Posts: 26101
Thing is, I think we'd still be seeing this situation even if they hadn't signed Tavares.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:58 am 
Offline
King of the One-Liner
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:40 pm
Posts: 5448
Location: Too deep in crease.
Well Yeah if Tavares signs with the sharks for more do the agents not still use it? Maybe getting him at 11 helps set a ceiling Matthews will be happy with, Matthews fate as one of the highest paid players in the game was set when Eichel and McDavid signed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:03 pm 
Offline
The Bird is the Word, yet the Word ≥ the Bird

Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:40 pm
Posts: 3076
Hounsy wrote:
Well Yeah if Tavares signs with the sharks for more do the agents not still use it? Maybe getting him at 11 helps set a ceiling Matthews will be happy with, Matthews fate as one of the highest paid players in the game was set when Eichel and McDavid signed.
Matthews will get all his money. It's the others they are asking to take a haircut. Either way the Leafs are in Cap hell.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:21 pm 
Offline
King of the One-Liner
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:40 pm
Posts: 5448
Location: Too deep in crease.
Cap hell only exist if you over pay players which is all the more reason they need to be stingy with RFA guys.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 91 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group