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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:44 pm 
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Hounsy wrote:
Cap hell only exist if you over pay players which is all the more reason they need to be stingy with RFA guys.
Agreed but the moment they signed Tavares, Dubas shortened their winning window, as opposed to carrying on without him. Have to admit it has caused cap issues, non?


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:39 pm 
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Not yet. But I don't think Nylander is necessary and if you don't over pay him he is a good asset to move.

Sign Matthews and Marner to 20 million between them long term and they have a 6-7 year window.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:38 pm 
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I think it largely depends on what they can move Nylander for. I've seen lots of Isles fans saying Nick Leddy for Nylander. That gets the Leafs a D-man who is fast and a much better player than his -45 or whatever it was at the end of last year. He makes $5.5 million for the next 4 seasons. Gets the Leafs in better cap shape than signing Nylander to anything he's asking for, but they lose a good forward. But they're losing him right now with the holdout.

They've got like 7 weeks to sign or move him, or they'll lose him for the year. I don't think it's too smart for a 22 year old to lose a whole season or for a team to be without an asset for a whole season. I guess the big question is who blinks first? Or can a sign & trade be worked? Nobody is going to take him without assurance that he'll sign with them.

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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:20 am 
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Hounsy wrote:
Cap hell only exist if you over pay players which is all the more reason they need to be stingy with RFA guys.


Babcock loves him and maybe he does bring some veteran savvy to the team but the biggest cap issue for the Leafs is Marleau's 6M next season. Hainsey's 3M is off the books next season.

Nashville still has lots of D? If you're going to move him then get someone out of Nashville.

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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:00 am 
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The reason I suspect it is true he is holding out for big money(Draisaitl) as is rumored is that he hasn't just been traded. Don't think anyone wants to pay him that much so as long as he is stuck on that kind of dollar figure he is near untradeable.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:41 pm 
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Check this out.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/map ... er-sheets/


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:12 pm 
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The cap has killed the offer sheet. Sure never say never but making one work in the current structure seems extremely unlikely. Dustin Penner 11yrs ago was the last successful one, sure never say never and the Leafs should be working already to secure those two long term but they can't just throw over payments around due to a fear of an offer sheet.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:37 pm 
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A big one will happen again someday, but something tells me we'll have to wait until the next CBA/amnesty buyout period takes place so teams can clear the crap off their respective rosters and be free to make a whole new slew of mistakes.

The Penner offer sheet was borne of desperation more than anything else. Lowe made two offer sheets that offseason, the first to Thomas Vanek and the second to Penner when Buffalo matched.

I don't think an offer sheet on Nylander will happen either. And if it does, it'll be so harmless so as the Leafs will likely be grateful, much like the Avs were when Calgary tried to whisk Ryan O'Reilly away. Most Avs fans were grateful the stupid stalemate was over, and the organization might have been as well even though they were wiping quite a bit of egg on their face

This is funny in hindsight because the whole Draisaitl contract and circumstances leading to it reportedly were all because Chiarelli feared an offer sheet was incoming, panicked, traded away Eberle to clear cap room (because he had used so much of it previously on marginal talent) and quickly signed Neon Leon to a long-term megadeal. Dubas won't be the one who blinks on this one. We'll see how it goes, but ol' Willie may be getting jealous of the goal bonanza going on and may give in.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:27 pm 
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1. Leafs are going to have serious cap issues, an offer sheet has more chance of working here than historical instances.
2. The road to the cup goes through Toronto for the next 5 - 7 years. Even if a GM doesn't win the offer sheet, he places the Leafs in weaker position to negotiate future contracts which weakens them as a team. It's a win/win situation for a GM. If they have cap room and are close to the cup I'd guess they'll be jumping at the opportunity.

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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:44 pm 
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Fogghorn wrote:
1. Leafs are going to have serious cap issues, an offer sheet has more chance of working here than historical instances.
2. The road to the cup goes through Toronto for the next 5 - 7 years. Even if a GM doesn't win the offer sheet, he places the Leafs in weaker position to negotiate future contracts which weakens them as a team. It's a win/win situation for a GM. If they have cap room and are close to the cup I'd guess they'll be jumping at the opportunity.


Yep. If I'm just about any other team, I'm prepping to give an offer sheet to Matthews. He's possibly worth 4 1sts. And if it doesn't work, you at least force the Leafs to a starting point, from which they can only go up. So if they keep Matthews (and I'm sure they'll match just about anything for him), then they probably won't be able to keep Marner or whomever else is up that year. So I think next year could be the year we at least see one, if not see a successful one.

And I don't see anyone giving Nylander an offer sheet. He wants $8 million, which is a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick. I think Lou would love to stick it to the Leafs and do it, but he doesn't have the proper picks for that.

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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:02 am 
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I think forgotten in offer sheet talk sometimes is outside of outbidding the current team they also need the player to want to come there. Typically the teams with money to spend are not currently competitive at that moment.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:04 am 
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Hounsy wrote:
I think forgotten in offer sheet talk sometimes is outside of outbidding the current team they also need the player to want to come there. Typically the teams with money to spend are not currently competitive at that moment.


That's true, competitive teams are usually restricted regarding cap space. On the other hand they are giving up late 1st round picks which is not a large concern. That's the problem for Nick Kypreos's theory, yes Arizona would love to have him but they'd give up early 1st round picks, screwing their future as they would have no one to surround Mathew's with. Mathew's is special and the Leafs situation is special. A competitive team may very well willing to trade off players for nothing but draft picks just to make cap space room for a bid on Mathews, only time will tell.

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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:43 am 
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Kapanen last five games has taken Nylander's spot on Matthews right side and has 4 goals and 4 assist in that period...and he is RFA next year. :spin:


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:20 pm 
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Hounsy wrote:
Kapanen last five games has taken Nylander's spot on Matthews right side and has 4 goals and 4 assist in that period...and he is RFA next year. :spin:


In other words, the Leafs are too good to stay together in a cap system?

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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:30 pm 
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They should sign guys to extensions before they play them with Matthews.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:58 am 
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Chris18 wrote:
Hounsy wrote:
Kapanen last five games has taken Nylander's spot on Matthews right side and has 4 goals and 4 assist in that period...and he is RFA next year. :spin:
In other words, the Leafs are too good to stay together in a cap system?
Pretty much but don't tell Dubas.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:40 am 
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Logical Progression wrote:
Chris18 wrote:
Hounsy wrote:
Kapanen last five games has taken Nylander's spot on Matthews right side and has 4 goals and 4 assist in that period...and he is RFA next year. :spin:
In other words, the Leafs are too good to stay together in a cap system?
Pretty much but don't tell Dubas.


Or Tavares.

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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:27 pm 
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You know things are getting intense when they decide to meet in frickin' Switzerland.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:20 pm 
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By all accounts it sounds like Willie's gonna cave here soon, if so that's a victory for Dubas--he won the staring contest for now.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:41 pm 
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Pokecheque wrote:
By all accounts it sounds like Willie's gonna cave here soon, if so that's a victory for Dubas--he won the staring contest for now.
Bridge deal.


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