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 Post subject: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:50 pm 
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Well looks like it will go on and on and on.

Figure the Leafs have to dig in their heels at 6.5 or so as their are comparable guys at that and they really have to establish how far they will dig their heels in with Matthews and Marner negotiations coming up. For that reason and the fact that they exceed Nylander in importance to the Leafs I think the Leafs are willing to let this kill his season with them. Now if they are going to kill his season at a sub six offer then well they are being assholes but if they are offering mid sixes Nylander has to go with it as they will not buckle.

As a fan figure if it gets past Dec 1st they at least have a ton of temporary space for the year to maybe take on a couple of dumps that can help them this year.

But who knows could be over tomorrow could be sitting here next year wondering if he will sign again....


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:28 pm 
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On one hand, if Nylander is asking for Draisaitl money IMO that's too much (I think it's too much for Draisaitl himself too). On the other hand I didn't like the implication Shanahan made about taking "hometown discounts" in the wake of paying a boatload of money to a free agent.

Sounds like this one's gonna go the distance...and that's a shame.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:21 pm 
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They need to move him soon for everyone's benefit.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:34 pm 
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Logical Progression wrote:
They need to move him soon for everyone's benefit.


That is also difficult if his cap hit ask is too high.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:05 am 
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Hounsy wrote:
Logical Progression wrote:
They need to move him soon for everyone's benefit.
That is also difficult if his cap hit ask is too high.
Not if they do a sign and trade?


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:00 am 
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Can teams give him an offer sheet now that the season has started? Nylander...Islander... It works so well.

Sorry Hounsy, but from my end, I'm enjoying this. I really hope this all blows up on the Leafs and people blame JT's contract for not being able to fit the other guys he was supposedly so worried about them keeping. I may start hitting Leafs forums to plant the idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:57 am 
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Logical Progression wrote:
Hounsy wrote:
Logical Progression wrote:
They need to move him soon for everyone's benefit.
That is also difficult if his cap hit ask is too high.
Not if they do a sign and trade?


I meant if he is demanding 8 million as some rumors say other teams also will not want to do that.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:05 am 
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Chris18 wrote:
Can teams give him an offer sheet now that the season has started? Nylander...Islander... It works so well.

Sorry Hounsy, but from my end, I'm enjoying this. I really hope this all blows up on the Leafs and people blame JT's contract for not being able to fit the other guys he was supposedly so worried about them keeping. I may start hitting Leafs forums to plant the idea.


The problem is he is a risky guy to overpay and to get him via offer sheet you will have to overpay. If you do the Leafs may very well be content with the picks anyway with Nylander.

Matthews is the one to look at next year for offer sheets but it will take four 1st and a huge hit to not be matched.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:47 am 
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Hounsy wrote:
Logical Progression wrote:
Hounsy wrote:
Logical Progression wrote:
They need to move him soon for everyone's benefit.
That is also difficult if his cap hit ask is too high.
Not if they do a sign and trade?
I meant if he is demanding 8 million as some rumors say other teams also will not want to do that.
I mean if the relationship has gone sideways as rumors would suggest and 6.5 or 7 million is the hill the Leafs die on then a sign ad trade makes sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Oh for sure. Could even sign and trade on a bridge deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:55 pm 
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We haven't seen a sign-and-trade yet, at least I don't think. What seems to happen is that the player gets traded with the implicit intention of signing a new deal the moment he arrives.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:53 pm 
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Pokecheque wrote:
We haven't seen a sign-and-trade yet, at least I don't think. What seems to happen is that the player gets traded with the implicit intention of signing a new deal the moment he arrives.
Like the Karlsson deal? I would think there is more leverage in a sign and trade for the club that is trading the asset, especially in a case like Nylander who has very little leverage of his own - except maybe for some social equity. The reason for that is because there is cost certainty going into a trade for both clubs, garnering quantifiable assets in return and knowing the potential suitors in advance. But that's just me. Suppose on the other hand you are limiting the pool of suitors in this scenario.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:19 pm 
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Logical Progression wrote:
Like the Karlsson deal? I would think there is more leverage in a sign and trade for the club that is trading the asset, especially in a case like Nylander who has very little leverage of his own - except maybe for some social equity. The reason for that is because there is cost certainty going into a trade for both clubs, garnering quantifiable assets in return and knowing the potential suitors in advance. But that's just me. Suppose on the other hand you are limiting the pool of suitors in this scenario.


Well...no, not like the Karlsson deal, in fact that one appears to be a one-year rental only and then come what may, which is one reason why a generational talent like that netted such a piddly return.

A prime example of this was the Duchene/Turris deal where Turris signed a multi-year extension the moment he arrived in Nashville. Ryan O'Reilly also signed a max deal as soon as he showed up in Buffalo.

I dunno, I guess a lot of teams just don't treat that eighth year with that much importance, that's about the only reason you would do a sign-and-trade I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:30 pm 
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In my mind I treat sign and trade and trade and sign as the same thing as I expect the team and player agent have it all worked out going in.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:11 pm 
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Pokecheque wrote:
Logical Progression wrote:
Like the Karlsson deal? I would think there is more leverage in a sign and trade for the club that is trading the asset, especially in a case like Nylander who has very little leverage of his own - except maybe for some social equity. The reason for that is because there is cost certainty going into a trade for both clubs, garnering quantifiable assets in return and knowing the potential suitors in advance. But that's just me. Suppose on the other hand you are limiting the pool of suitors in this scenario.
Well...no, not like the Karlsson deal, in fact that one appears to be a one-year rental only and then come what may, which is one reason why a generational talent like that netted such a piddly return.
Was being mildly sarcastic. :lol: Offer sheet.....don't know why higher up teams don't do this more if they have cap space and it's an equitable return for their draft pick rankings. Doesn't really make sense for bottom feeders who are rebuilding though.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:01 pm 
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Logical Progression wrote:
Was being mildly sarcastic. :lol: Offer sheet.....don't know why higher up teams don't do this more if they have cap space and it's an equitable return for their draft pick rankings. Doesn't really make sense for bottom feeders who are rebuilding though.


Honestly I think all the bellyaching and whining from GMs as well as the fear of reprisal makes them all gun-shy. If nothing else you disrupt another team's salary structure, that seems worth it.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:24 am 
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Everyone is looking at cap structure to build a cup winner so they all end up with similar ideas for what a player is worth making the likelihood of an offer sheet a long shot. Yeah could happen but the conditions for it to happen is rare and becoming more rare all the time as draft pick value has also shot up with the cap and the premium put on young young cheap talent to augment the stars.

If someone offers Nylander 8 million the leafs take the picks and the cap space and likely feel they are good.

As well a quick check of Capfriendly tells me the only teams with the space and picks to do it are Canes, Avs, and Nucks. At some point if you mess around more with your own structure to screw with someone else's you have to step back and ask why bother.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:42 pm 
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Hounsy wrote:
As well a quick check of Capfriendly tells me the only teams with the space and picks to do it are Canes, Avs, and Nucks. At some point if you mess around more with your own structure to screw with someone else's you have to step back and ask why bother.
Don't think this would ever be done deliberately -- it's just part of the business and a timing thing. if it's a why bother proposition then it should be taken out of the CBA.

Doesn't make sense for the Canucks to offer sheet as it their draft pick rankings would likely favor the Leafs. They are also in rebuild mode so need those picks.

Was at the Kings home opener versus the Sharks last night and a met die hard Leafs fan who was in my group -- and he was just praying to hear the news the Nylander had signed, as he was feeling very uneasy about the whole situation.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:07 pm 
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Compensation:
$1,339,575 or less No compensation
$1,339,576 to $2,029,659 Third-round pick
$2,029,660 to $4,059,322 Second-round pick
$4,059,323 to $6,088,980 First and third-round picks
$6,088,981 to $8,118,641 First, second and third-round picks
$8,118,642 to $10,148,302 Two firsts, a second and third-round picks
Over $10,148,302 Four first-round picks

Do they all have to be the following year's picks? Or is it one pick/year for the next x year?

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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:49 pm 
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I really think the Leafs are willing to drive this one of the cliff and wipe out his season.


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