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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:20 pm 
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If Nylander does not want out of Toronto he may regret giving the Leafs offense a chance to see how it clicks with out him.

Bridge and trade for defensive help.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:43 pm 
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Hounsy wrote:
I really think the Leafs are willing to drive this one of the cliff and wipe out his season.
Wow what a mess. Apparently Dubas is saying that players need to make sacrifices for the team if they intend to compete for a Stanley Cup. Suppose he is talking to Nylander and Marner, but not to Matthews who should garner $12-12.5 M next year.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:09 am 
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I suspect he is talking to all RFA's as it all adds up. Getting 500k less per Marner, Nylander, and Matthews would be awesome but picking up a few hundred per as well for guys like Kapanen, Johnsson, Brown, and Dermott would add up as well.

Tough for Nylander as he is the example right now and just see no way the Leafs can bend and yet he is the most obvious choice to get moved and not be around on that team he took a hair cut to allow for them to be more competitive.

This is why maybe they just need to all step back and drop the long term deal and just bridge with the expectation of an eventual trade.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:19 am 
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Apparently Nylander camp aren't considering a bridge deal at this stage and they are standing firm at 8 years. 5 years seems equitable but not if you don't have a dance partner. Heard the CBA states that if no deal is done by 1 December, then Nylander loses the year, but not if he does a signing bonus structure much like Tavares did.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/279 ... m-nylander


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:45 am 
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What's his trade value? He's a hold out, like his father, so teams know he has the potential to be a huge pain in the ass. If I'm looking to trade for him, I only want a long term deal, since I don't want him pulling this again after a bridge deal. He's only 22, so a 7-8 year deal would be a good idea for the team anyway, as even $8 million could be a good deal for a player like him down the road with the Cap going up.

But I think Dubas is sniffing some serious amounts of glue if he thinks ALL the RFAs are going to be willing to take team friendly deals after he gave Tavares $11 million. I get that's what he wants, but it's just not realistic. Obviously I'm biased, but Dubas likely created Cap hell for himself with the Tavares deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:29 am 
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The thing is they are all RFA's and with out arbitration and most believe SJ and Islanders offered more money to Tavares so do not think Tavares sets the market on RFA guys. Matthews has leverage as they just can not have him in the lineup he is their best player and the one I think any offer sheet would have to be matched and I expect him to land somewhere between Eichel and McDavid but then if that is the case 11 million is team friendly.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:53 am 
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Chris18 wrote:
What's his trade value? He's a hold out, like his father, so teams know he has the potential to be a huge pain in the ass. If I'm looking to trade for him, I only want a long term deal, since I don't want him pulling this again after a bridge deal. He's only 22, so a 7-8 year deal would be a good idea for the team anyway, as even $8 million could be a good deal for a player like him down the road with the Cap going up.

But I think Dubas is sniffing some serious amounts of glue if he thinks ALL the RFAs are going to be willing to take team friendly deals after he gave Tavares $11 million. I get that's what he wants, but it's just not realistic. Obviously I'm biased, but Dubas likely created Cap hell for himself with the Tavares deal.


He's a high-end top line forward who can play wing or center, I'd say his value is pretty high.

In the end talent wins out over everything. Even if they get the "pain in the ass" label there'll be teams lining up to take him on and pay him accordingly. And most every team that traded away his old man ended up regretting it (the frickin' Blackhawks dealt him to Washington for Chris Simon and Andrei Nikolishin).

I would like to see this end amicably. I liked Dubas's moxie when he said flat-out in the 31 Thoughts podcast "We can, and we will." when asked if they can fit Nylander and everyone else under the cap in the wake of the Tavares deal.

We'll see what happens if this lingers on for another month. If the Leafs win out then I think his leverage is severely weakened and he opts for the bridge deal.

There's been a push to change the language around "holdouts," which is understandable. It always seems to put the onus on the player to sign whatever's offered to him.

Colorado is likely watching this very closely. Whatever Nylander signs for may affect what happens when it's time to negotiate Mikko Rantanen's new deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:12 am 
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Come to think of it $8.5M-$9M seems fair market value in light of the Tavares signing. Agree with Chris, do an 8 year deal at around that and move him -- it seems the relationship is getting more sour by the day.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:45 am 
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Logical Progression wrote:
Come to think of it $8.5M-$9M seems fair market value in light of the Tavares signing. Agree with Chris, do an 8 year deal at around that and move him -- it seems the relationship is getting more sour by the day.


For Nylander? Marner next year I could see ending up there, but while Nylander is good he is not dominant good and that is what that kinda money goes too. He is a sixty point winger, Leaf fans loved to claim he could be a center but just do not see it in his game. 6.5-7 is fair and 6-6.5 team friendly. Over 7 is too much for team and under 6 is too little for player is how I break it down.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:44 pm 
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No, he shouldn't get Draisaitl money. And Draisaitl shouldn't have gotten Draisaitl money. One incompetent GM should not set the market for the league.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:11 pm 
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Pokecheque wrote:
No, he shouldn't get Draisaitl money. And Draisaitl shouldn't have gotten Draisaitl money. One incompetent GM should not set the market for the league.
Agreed. Guess my point is that there are a tonne of incompetent GM's who would happily pay Draisaitl money for Nylander, hence the standoff and the sign and trade scenario. We are talking market value. Whether he is worth it is another question. He'll surely fetch at least $7M-$7.5 on the open market, non?


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:19 pm 
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Logical Progression wrote:
Agreed. Guess my point is that there are a tonne of incompetent GM's who would happily pay Draisaitl money for Nylander, hence the standoff and the sign and trade scenario. We are talking market value. Whether he is worth it is another question. All this being said my understanding is that the Leafs are NOT prepared to pay more than $6.5M. is this incorrect?


I think they want him at that rate for a bridge deal, yes. Maybe they meet in the middle and do some five year deal or something for 7 or 7.5 but it's a pretty wide gulf between player/agent and team.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:59 pm 
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last year Ehlers signed 7years @ 6million and Pasternak was 6 years @ 6.67. I believe if the Leafs sit hard on that range say 6 @ 6.325 then he will have to accept it or go play in another league. It is low but not with out precedent to say it is unfair. I suspect the agent has over promised and is just avoiding facing the inevitable under deliver. Draisaitl was over paid with one good season but even that was far better than any season Nylander and was far more established at center.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:12 pm 
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Who would you rather have on your roster - Marner or Nylander?


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:38 pm 
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Logical Progression wrote:
Who would you rather have on your roster - Marner or Nylander?


Marner, but I still want Nylander.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:16 am 
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Hounsy wrote:
The thing is they are all RFA's and with out arbitration and most believe SJ and Islanders offered more money to Tavares so do not think Tavares sets the market on RFA guys. Matthews has leverage as they just can not have him in the lineup he is their best player and the one I think any offer sheet would have to be matched and I expect him to land somewhere between Eichel and McDavid but then if that is the case 11 million is team friendly.


All reports I've read said the Sharks were willing to offer Tavares up to $13 million/year, although it didn't say how many years. I'd imagine 7, as that's what everyone knew it would take to land him.
Also everything I've read has said the Isles offered 8 years @ $11.375 million, while he took the Leafs offer of 7 years @ $11 million/. So he left $14 million on the table to go to the Leafs. I'm sure he'll make that up in endorsements in TO.

I know he didn't go to college, but if he really is dumb enough to believe that his $11 million/year contract wouldn't make other guys on the team want more, he's far dumber than I thought was possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:18 am 
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Thing is, I think we'd still be seeing this situation even if they hadn't signed Tavares.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:58 am 
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Well Yeah if Tavares signs with the sharks for more do the agents not still use it? Maybe getting him at 11 helps set a ceiling Matthews will be happy with, Matthews fate as one of the highest paid players in the game was set when Eichel and McDavid signed.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:03 pm 
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Hounsy wrote:
Well Yeah if Tavares signs with the sharks for more do the agents not still use it? Maybe getting him at 11 helps set a ceiling Matthews will be happy with, Matthews fate as one of the highest paid players in the game was set when Eichel and McDavid signed.
Matthews will get all his money. It's the others they are asking to take a haircut. Either way the Leafs are in Cap hell.


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 Post subject: Re: Nylander Standoff
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Cap hell only exist if you over pay players which is all the more reason they need to be stingy with RFA guys.


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