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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:37 pm 
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Av-merican wrote:
You could definitely argue the Kovalchuk contract cost them Parise.

I'm gonna have to venture over to the Devils forum on HF and gauge the level of fanbase meltdown. :munch: :eng101:


I like this one.

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You don't. You don't "replace" Kovalchuk. You don't replace top talent. You certainly don't do it in an afternoon. You grow new top talent.

Or you steal it from Vancouver, apparently.

We'll go sign Jagr or Brunner. Give Lou a week to think.


:fffffuck:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:41 pm 
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The Devils may have problems with their debt issues (most indebted team in the NHL according to Forbes) but they've been spending to the cap every year and this past offseason signed Clowe for $4.825m per, Ryder for $3.5m, acquired Schneider at $4m, and retained 35 year old Zubrus for $3.1m per for 3 years. I'm skeptical they're working their way down to the floor, esp in a year they don't have a first round draft pick.

Kovalchuk had 37 goals in 11/12, 31 in 10/11, 41 in 09/10... he was down to 11 in 37 GP last year so maybe he hit 25 over a full year (he had 18 in 36 KHL games and 8 in 8 World Championship games so it seems like he still has decent game). I have to assume a guy with his pedigree, health, etc would still command a premium NHL salary. That's where I chose $7m+ from. Guys who can consistently pot that many goals are going to get paid a lot. There's only what, 10 guys like that at most?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:50 pm 
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saskhab wrote:
The Devils may have problems with their debt issues (most indebted team in the NHL according to Forbes) but they've been spending to the cap every year and this past offseason signed Clowe for $4.825m per, Ryder for $3.5m, acquired Schneider at $4m, and retained 35 year old Zubrus for $3.1m per for 3 years. I'm skeptical they're working their way down to the floor, esp in a year they don't have a first round draft pick.

Kovalchuk had 37 goals in 11/12, 31 in 10/11, 41 in 09/10... he was down to 11 in 37 GP last year so maybe he hit 25 over a full year (he had 18 in 36 KHL games and 8 in 8 World Championship games so it seems like he still has decent game). I have to assume a guy with his pedigree, health, etc would still command a premium NHL salary. That's where I chose $7m+ from. Guys who can consistently pot that many goals are going to get paid a lot. There's only what, 10 guys like that at most?


And there is the problem the NHL will have. If the Devils give up his rights, he can come back at as an FA, sign where he wants and because he is as good as you have described he can sign for money better then what he was receiving.

There is also an issue in that the KHL is now becoming competitive with the NHL for talent. It's one thing for a player under contract to semi-retire and play in his homeland of Thirdworldslaviastan another thing to go play for the 2nd best league in the world that is expanding into Finland and who knows where next. Already most of the mid-tier Russian players are staying at home, is this the start of the nations top stars returning? Do the Finns go next? The NHL has a potential competitor for top tier talent and having them do and end run around contracts here can't sit well with the NHL.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:02 pm 
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Folks -
It's a North American game. Don't draft Russians. Don't have them play on your teams. When will GM's learn?

Don't put communists on your team. It's that simple.

No sympathy for New Jersey on this one.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:12 am 
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If the Euros start flocking to the KHL and it continues to expand, the NHL may have to seriously consider contraction.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:20 am 
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Chris18 wrote:
If the Euros start flocking to the KHL and it continues to expand, the NHL may have to seriously consider contraction.

I doubt that'll ever happen.

We just might have to live in a world where we don't know how good some country's players really are compared to our own again. We'll see how the KHL does over the next little while, especially with their western expansion into traditional hockey countries like Finland starting next year (Jokerit is joining), the Czech Republic, Slovakia, etc., and their continued attempts to get into places like Germany. The less Russian and more European it is, the more attractive it'll be for talent, including a few North American players who get squeezed out due to salary cap concerns.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:24 am 
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saskhab wrote:
Chris18 wrote:
If the Euros start flocking to the KHL and it continues to expand, the NHL may have to seriously consider contraction.

I doubt that'll ever happen.

We just might have to live in a world where we don't know how good some country's players really are compared to our own again. We'll see how the KHL does over the next little while, especially with their western expansion into traditional hockey countries like Finland starting next year (Jokerit is joining), the Czech Republic, Slovakia, etc., and their continued attempts to get into places like Germany. The less Russian and more European it is, the more attractive it'll be for talent, including a few North American players who get squeezed out due to salary cap concerns.


Yeah, moments after writing that and logging out, I remembered that in one of the "NHL to ban fighting" threads I said enforcers keep some NHL level talented players in the AHL. If the Euros go, they bump up to the bigs. So we'll have enforcers & the kids who would otherwise be in the AHL. With a higher percentage of names we can more easily pronounce. :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:31 am 
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saskhab wrote:
We just might have to live in a world where we don't know how good some country's players really are compared to our own again. We'll see how the KHL does over the next little while, especially with their western expansion into traditional hockey countries like Finland starting next year (Jokerit is joining), the Czech Republic, Slovakia, etc., and their continued attempts to get into places like Germany. The less Russian and more European it is, the more attractive it'll be for talent, including a few North American players who get squeezed out due to salary cap concerns.

The league averages between 5 to 6 thousand fans a game. The only way it can possibly afford any of this is through what is presumably proceeds of crime among owners who apparently don't mind losing millions. Is that really sustainable long term? Even non-Russian teams like Jokerit don't draw in as many fans as NHL teams, and I doubt there's a whole lot of criminal money propping up hockey outside of Russia. I can't imagine the revenue of even the top Czech or Slovak teams is anything like in the NHL, either, which it would need to be to compete for NHL-caliber players over the long haul.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:38 am 
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Jyrki21 wrote:
saskhab wrote:
We just might have to live in a world where we don't know how good some country's players really are compared to our own again. We'll see how the KHL does over the next little while, especially with their western expansion into traditional hockey countries like Finland starting next year (Jokerit is joining), the Czech Republic, Slovakia, etc., and their continued attempts to get into places like Germany. The less Russian and more European it is, the more attractive it'll be for talent, including a few North American players who get squeezed out due to salary cap concerns.

The league averages between 5 to 6 thousand fans a game. The only way it can possibly afford any of this is through what is presumably proceeds of crime among owners who apparently don't mind losing millions. Is that really sustainable long term? Even non-Russian teams like Jokerit don't draw in as many fans as NHL teams, and I doubt there's a whole lot of criminal money propping up hockey outside of Russia. I can't imagine the revenue of even the top Czech or Slovak teams is anything like in the NHL, either, which it would need to be to compete for NHL-caliber players over the long haul.

I never said they would be competing on equal terms. I said they might be able to pluck out a few of the NA guys who get squeezed out. Canadian/American versions of the Kostitsyns, etc. There will be a few guys over the years that will not find jobs for money they like and have to choose between a 1.5m Euro offer or a 1m US offer.

Germany has money. That's the big market. Eisbaren Berlin attracts north of 15k fans a game. Jokerit can draw decently. There are TV deals to be had, sponsorships. It's not an NHL equal, no, but it doesn't need to be to sifon off some of the NHL's talent.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:43 am 
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O2 World is a swank arena in Berlin. What a sight, seeing 15K Krauts cheering on Barry Tallackson.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:45 am 
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saskhab wrote:
I never said they would be competing on equal terms. I said they might be able to pluck out a few of the NA guys who get squeezed out. Canadian/American versions of the Kostitsyns, etc. There will be a few guys over the years that will not find jobs for money they like and have to choose between a 1.5m Euro offer or a 1m US offer.

Germany has money. That's the big market. Eisbaren Berlin attracts north of 15k fans a game. Jokerit can draw decently. There are TV deals to be had, sponsorships. It's not an NHL equal, no, but it doesn't need to be to sifon off some of the NHL's talent.

Fair enough, I just wonder how sustainable the entire operation is. I'm kind of surprised the KHL has lasted as long as it has, frankly.

That's interesting about Berlin, but that has to be tops in the DEL, no?, and I'm sure their ticket prices are cheap by NHL standards. Hockey still is not very visible in Germany, even if it's not as obscure as, say, France.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:00 pm 
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Another case for Long Term contract nonsense. Big surprise he makes his money and goes home. So long Bro!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:45 pm 
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harmfuljays wrote:
Another case for Long Term contract nonsense. Big surprise he makes his money and goes home. So long Bro!


Actually, no...he didn't really make his money. Left $77 million guaranteed on the table. Yes, he made plenty up until now, and will make plenty of it in Russia, but he still left a lot of guaranteed money on the table.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:01 pm 
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Says the guy who argued with me 6 months ago about Lubo Visnovsky and the KHL. :D The shoe is on the other foot now! ;) Now this guy (Kovalchuk) is a tool.....came here took advantage of the system and wen't home without any care for his team or the game. Where's all that suspend him talk now? Oh wait......its an out for the owners.....This guy just outright QUIT on the Devils. Hall of Fame my balls.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:15 pm 
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harmfuljays wrote:
Says the guy who argued with me 6 months ago about Lubo Visnovsky and the KHL. :D The shoe is on the other foot now! ;) Now this guy (Kovalchuk) is a tool.....came here took advantage of the system and wen't home without any care for his team or the game. Where's all that suspend him talk now? Oh wait......its an out for the owners.....This guy just outright QUIT on the Devils. Hall of Fame my balls.


Agreed.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:37 pm 
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Retirement?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:41 pm 
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Meh. Dude spent his entire NHL career in Atlanta and New Jersey. He's probably happy in St. Petersburg where they'll actually have full crowds watching him for a change.

Bobby Hull quit on the Blackhawks and he's in the HHOF.

Again, Ziggy Palffy "retired" in 2006 from the NHL, getting the Penguins out of a couple of years of high end salary off the cap. He sat out a year due to injury, then played in Slovakia. He's still playing. He played in the 2010 Olympics and almost helped knock Canada out of the tournament in the semi-final.

It helped the player and the team. What's happened here isn't much different.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:17 pm 
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Interesting analysis on the how the cap recapture penalty works and potential problems with how it is being implemented.

http://canucksarmy.com/2013/7/13/musings-on-ilya-kovalchuks-recapture-penalty

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:07 pm 
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So he's signed with St. Petersburg for 4 years, money not released but rumoured by the radio hosts at between $15 to $20 mil. That's tax free dollars. :o

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:21 am 
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Ummmmmm, well, this'll kinda make up for that gaping hole at RW....

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/24/sport ... .html?_r=0


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