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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:41 pm 
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Bosc wrote:
Larkin done for the season :x

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Max Bultman
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Jeff Blashill says Dylan Larkin will miss the rest of the season with an upper-body injury, will be re-evaluated in a couple weeks


Well, not much season left so hopefully it's one of those things they're doing just out of caution rather than necessity.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:31 pm 
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Bosc wrote:
Drafting goaltending is voodoo, Skip. Results with drafting a goalie in the top-15 is a total crapshoot. Only two have been take in the top-15 in the last decade. I'd stay away from drafting a goalie if I was Stevey Y.


Everybody says that, Jeff. That's how teams lose out on guys like Martin Brodeur, Patrick Roy and Dominik Hasek. Sometimes you have to take a chance. If you look at the 1st round picks of most teams every year they're not even racking up All-Stars with their picks. That along with the lack of a season's worth of data on a lot of Candian Juniors because of Covid it's a good year to take a flyer at somebody in net who has a lot of promise. Yzerman, in part, built his team in Tampa around Andrei Vasilevski. Maybe Wallstedt can be that guy for us. That said if we get lucky and win the draft lottery then, yes, we take a skater, I agree.

Bosc wrote:
Do you think they sign and hold onto Vrana, or deal him?


Truthfully, I don't know. My spidey senses tell me that they'll try and sign him. Our system seems to fit him well.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:31 pm 
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RW wrote:
Everybody says that, Jeff. That's how teams lose out on guys like Martin Brodeur, Patrick Roy and Dominik Hasek. Sometimes you have to take a chance. If you look at the 1st round picks of most teams every year they're not even racking up All-Stars with their picks. That along with the lack of a season's worth of data on a lot of Candian Juniors because of Covid it's a good year to take a flyer at somebody in net who has a lot of promise. Yzerman, in part, built his team in Tampa around Andrei Vasilevski. Maybe Wallstedt can be that guy for us. That said if we get lucky and win the draft lottery then, yes, we take a skater, I agree.


For the sake of argument, Brodeur was taken 20th overall, Patrick Roy was drafted in the third round, and The Dominator was selected in the TENTH round, which of course no longer exists. You're not necessarily missing out on elite netminders if you don't draft them as a priority.

Vasilevskiy was taken 19th overall. Generally goalies don't go in the first round unless there's a whole train's worth of hype surrounding them. Spencer Knight and Jaroslav Askarov are prime examples of guys with a ton of expectations behind them.

For the most part you should always draft the best player available no matter what the position. Mind you, beyond the top nine or ten picks there really isn't a consensus on who's the best so that's not a hard and fast rule, but IMO prioritizing the drafting of a goalie is what leads to situations like the Dallas Stars taking Jack Campbell, who turned out to be a really good backup but just another giant whiff under Joe Nieuwendyk's disastrous tenure as GM there.

If you got good scouts you can still get good goalies in lower rounds, and really, getting them there is advantageous because a lot of times, if you're drafting a kid in NCAA or Europe, you hold his rights for years, and with goalies they likely need to stew a lot longer than most other players.

I'm guessing Stevie Y's got a plan--if ANY GM has one, it's that guy.

Personally I think the league still overvalues goaltending WAY too much. Yes, it's a complete and total disaster if you get it wrong. But more often than not teams overpay (looking at you, Calgary) when there are all kinds of more economical options available. You only have to fill two (nowadays even before COVID it's more like three) goalie slots on your roster. At any given time there are TONS of netminders available around the world. Too often teams keep going back to the same well, I'd like to see a team break with tradition and try out some Euro free agents, etc. The Avs found a capable backup that way--unfortunately injuries ended up taking that particular advantage away.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:23 pm 
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Pokecheque wrote:
RW wrote:
Everybody says that, Jeff. That's how teams lose out on guys like Martin Brodeur, Patrick Roy and Dominik Hasek. Sometimes you have to take a chance. If you look at the 1st round picks of most teams every year they're not even racking up All-Stars with their picks. That along with the lack of a season's worth of data on a lot of Candian Juniors because of Covid it's a good year to take a flyer at somebody in net who has a lot of promise. Yzerman, in part, built his team in Tampa around Andrei Vasilevski. Maybe Wallstedt can be that guy for us. That said if we get lucky and win the draft lottery then, yes, we take a skater, I agree.


For the sake of argument, Brodeur was taken 20th overall, Patrick Roy was drafted in the third round, and The Dominator was selected in the TENTH round, which of course no longer exists. You're not necessarily missing out on elite netminders if you don't draft them as a priority.

Vasilevskiy was taken 19th overall. Generally goalies don't go in the first round unless there's a whole train's worth of hype surrounding them. Spencer Knight and Jaroslav Askarov are prime examples of guys with a ton of expectations behind them.

For the most part you should always draft the best player available no matter what the position. Mind you, beyond the top nine or ten picks there really isn't a consensus on who's the best so that's not a hard and fast rule, but IMO prioritizing the drafting of a goalie is what leads to situations like the Dallas Stars taking Jack Campbell, who turned out to be a really good backup but just another giant whiff under Joe Nieuwendyk's disastrous tenure as GM there.

If you got good scouts you can still get good goalies in lower rounds, and really, getting them there is advantageous because a lot of times, if you're drafting a kid in NCAA or Europe, you hold his rights for years, and with goalies they likely need to stew a lot longer than most other players.

I'm guessing Stevie Y's got a plan--if ANY GM has one, it's that guy.

Personally I think the league still overvalues goaltending WAY too much. Yes, it's a complete and total disaster if you get it wrong. But more often than not teams overpay (looking at you, Calgary) when there are all kinds of more economical options available. You only have to fill two (nowadays even before COVID it's more like three) goalie slots on your roster. At any given time there are TONS of netminders available around the world. Too often teams keep going back to the same well, I'd like to see a team break with tradition and try out some Euro free agents, etc. The Avs found a capable backup that way--unfortunately injuries ended up taking that particular advantage away.


Hasek was taken in the 10th, but back then there was far fewer teams. He was taken at 199. In 2020 there may have only been 7 rounds, but there was 217 picks. Starting next year, 1 more pick per round. If Bettman has his way, there will be 6 rounds of 40 picks, with teams in Puerto Rico, Death Valley, Hawaii, and other places where metal melts, let alone ice.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:15 pm 
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Chris18 wrote:
Hasek was taken in the 10th, but back then there was far fewer teams. He was taken at 199. In 2020 there may have only been 7 rounds, but there was 217 picks. Starting next year, 1 more pick per round. If Bettman has his way, there will be 6 rounds of 40 picks, with teams in Puerto Rico, Death Valley, Hawaii, and other places where metal melts, let alone ice.


All of those places you mention are better hockey locations than Glendale, Arizona.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:49 am 
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Pokecheque wrote:
Chris18 wrote:
Hasek was taken in the 10th, but back then there was far fewer teams. He was taken at 199. In 2020 there may have only been 7 rounds, but there was 217 picks. Starting next year, 1 more pick per round. If Bettman has his way, there will be 6 rounds of 40 picks, with teams in Puerto Rico, Death Valley, Hawaii, and other places where metal melts, let alone ice.


All of those places you mention are better hockey locations than Glendale, Arizona.


I know. I once went to a game in Phoenix. "Why is it so cold in here?" :chairshot:

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PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 2:46 am 
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Pokecheque wrote:
For the sake of argument, Brodeur was taken 20th overall, Patrick Roy was drafted in the third round, and The Dominator was selected in the TENTH round, which of course no longer exists. You're not necessarily missing out on elite netminders if you don't draft them as a priority.

Vasilevskiy was taken 19th overall. Generally goalies don't go in the first round unless there's a whole train's worth of hype surrounding them. Spencer Knight and Jaroslav Askarov are prime examples of guys with a ton of expectations behind them.


I think this kind of backs up the point I'm trying to make. A lot of teams passed up great goaltenders for less than ideal skaters. I do have a hockey nerd admission that I need to make. I own every Hockey News Yearbook back into the early 1990's I read them all from time to time just to see how old drafts and highly rated prospects did. I've started sussing out how everybody's draft and prospect picking tends to go. Outside of the top 5 - 6 picks most years and maybe the top 10 on really unusual years the draft is, for the most part, a game of darts. A lot of top 10 picks fell by the wayside never to be heard from again. Oddly, over the past 30 years, regardless of draft position, teams like Detroit, Quebec/Colorado, Dallas, Chicago and New Jersey had really long streaks of picking up top draft picks in all rounds. I credit this to great scouting. Noting this I have come to a non-statistical conclusion that it's silly not to take goaltenders earlier in the draft as early drafted skaters seem just as likely to fail as goalies. I agree with you that teams should take the best player available. From everything I've read Wallstedt is rated to be the best goalie available and is projected to be a Franchise level talent if not higher. That along with another 1st round pick from the Mantha trade and I really don't mind taking a chance on a top goalie prospect. Detroit has a good scouting staff and we need more depth at the goalie position.

Pokecheque wrote:
For the most part you should always draft the best player available no matter what the position. Mind you, beyond the top nine or ten picks there really isn't a consensus on who's the best so that's not a hard and fast rule, but IMO prioritizing the drafting of a goalie is what leads to situations like the Dallas Stars taking Jack Campbell, who turned out to be a really good backup but just another giant whiff under Joe Nieuwendyk's disastrous tenure as GM there.

If you got good scouts you can still get good goalies in lower rounds, and really, getting them there is advantageous because a lot of times, if you're drafting a kid in NCAA or Europe, you hold his rights for years, and with goalies they likely need to stew a lot longer than most other players.

I'm guessing Stevie Y's got a plan--if ANY GM has one, it's that guy.

Personally I think the league still overvalues goaltending WAY too much. Yes, it's a complete and total disaster if you get it wrong. But more often than not teams overpay (looking at you, Calgary) when there are all kinds of more economical options available. You only have to fill two (nowadays even before COVID it's more like three) goalie slots on your roster. At any given time there are TONS of netminders available around the world. Too often teams keep going back to the same well, I'd like to see a team break with tradition and try out some Euro free agents, etc. The Avs found a capable backup that way--unfortunately injuries ended up taking that particular advantage away.


Picking 18-year-olds and trying to guess how they will perform in 5+ years, except for a few can't miss stars, is a crapshoot for every position, including goaltending. The Red Wings are falling into the lower half of the top 10 right now and assuming they don't win the Draft Lottery, in which case I'd take Owen Power to partner with Moritz Seider, then I'd take a shot at Wallstedt at 7 or 8 and not worry a great deal about the available skaters. Detroit doesn't really need more depth a defence and generational centres won't be available for us at our position anyway. The best player left, in my humble opinion at 7 or 6 is Wallstedt. That said, Steve Yzerman may think I'm full of shit and he'll bloody well take who he wants.

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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 3:01 pm 
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This might be the draft to take a goalie. Not a high-end draft like previous years.

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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 9:55 am 
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Totally forgot Justin Abdelkader isn’t playing in the NHL anymore. His Swiss team won the NL championship.

EDIT: Here's the link.

https://twitter.com/justinabss/status/1 ... 7208018944


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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 6:24 pm 
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Would you please shrink that photo down for me Tom?

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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 5:46 pm 
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RW wrote:
Would you please shrink that photo down for me Tom?


Well, I don't have access right this instant to anything that'll shrink it down, but I edited my previous post so that you can see the original photos on Twitter. That way it's not screwing up this thread displaying anymore.


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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 6:06 pm 
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Oh, and going back to the original discussion, yeah, I suppose if you can get him, or Cossa (the other one I've heard about) then get him, but it all depends on where the Wings land in terms of the lottery.

Here's a mock draft that, presently, has Detroit taking your boy Wallstedt 6th overall.

http://www.mynhldraft.com/NHL-Mock-Draft/


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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 4:43 am 
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Pokecheque wrote:
RW wrote:
Would you please shrink that photo down for me Tom?


Well, I don't have access right this instant to anything that'll shrink it down, but I edited my previous post so that you can see the original photos on Twitter. That way it's not screwing up this thread displaying anymore.


Thanks, Tom. I appreciate it.

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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 4:47 am 
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Pokecheque wrote:
Oh, and going back to the original discussion, yeah, I suppose if you can get him, or Cossa (the other one I've heard about) then get him, but it all depends on where the Wings land in terms of the lottery.

Here's a mock draft that, presently, has Detroit taking your boy Wallstedt 6th overall.

http://www.mynhldraft.com/NHL-Mock-Draft/


I saw a similar one on another mock draft site.

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