OffThePost.org

(Generation III)
It is currently Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:18 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Au revior, Ken Holland
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 12:26 am 
Offline
Distinguished Gentleman of OTP
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:15 pm
Posts: 1711
Ken Holland served 22 years as the Detroit Red Wings' General Manager before his jump to the GM's job with the Edmonton Oilers. His accomplishments as GM in Detroit include, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Stanley Cup Finals, 5 Conference Finals, 4 President's Trophies and 19 consecutive years of making the playoffs. This list of accomplishments has, in all likilhood, guaranteed his induction into the Hockey Hall of Fame. The article below is by longtime Red Wings beat writer, Ansar Khan of MLive.com, and lists what the writer feels are Holland's best moves and his worst as Detroit's GM. Among his best are the trades for Dominik Hasek and Chris Chelios. Also, his signing of Brian Rafalski is listed as one of his career highlights. His mistakes are headlined by the signings of Uwe Krupp and Darien Hatcher along with the lengthy contract extension for Justin Abdelkader.

https://expo.mlive.com/sports/g66l-2019/05/fdd7497d2a6243/ken-hollands-biggest-hits-and-misses-as-red-wings-gm.html

_________________
Bíonn macalla ag an bheatha sa tsíoraíocht. Liverpool FC: 2019 and 6-time Champions of Europe. YNWA. JFT 96


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 2:03 pm 
Offline
Big in Japan
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:37 am
Posts: 10656
Location: 'Real City
Honestly about as smooth a transition in Detroit as one could've hoped. I know Holland took the first GM job thrown his way instead of semi-retiring, but Detroit wrangled Yzerman from TBay and look prime for a rebuild and eventual renaissance.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:21 pm 
Offline
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:37 am
Posts: 21695
Aaaaaaand you just knew this was all gonna land in Ken Holland's lap eventually.

https://twitter.com/iyer_prashanth/stat ... 1197542400

Quote:
This Babcock stuff is ridiculous. To recap:

- Babcock verbally assaults Franzen
- Wings veterans reportedly approach Holland asking for Babcock to be fired
- Holland's response is to protect Babcock and tells players that they can request a trade if they don't like it


This is still not as bad a look as Francis enabling and even extending a coach he clearly knew was physically assaulting players, but it's still not a good look.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:19 pm 
Offline
Tattoo of the Post
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:54 pm
Posts: 7451
I'm out of the loop a bit on this, but what did Babcock say to Franzen?

_________________
Posting your political views on social media is like sticking your head up your ass & whispering: You're just as likely to change someone's mind, and you'll always come out looking like a shithead.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:37 pm 
Offline
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:37 am
Posts: 21695
Chris18 wrote:
I'm out of the loop a bit on this, but what did Babcock say to Franzen?


I think it's on an interview with Chris Chelios on the latest Spittin' Chiclets podcast. I'm told it's all really good stuff. Some fun, some not-so fun memories.

All I know is that whatever Babs said, it was enough to leave Franzen, who has struggled with mental illness and neurological issues in the intervening years, to have a nervous breakdown.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:23 pm 
Offline
OTP Historian
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:10 pm
Posts: 9724
Franzen is going to town on Babcock.

https://twitter.com/RyanHanaWWP/status/ ... 9132459008

Quote:
Translated quotes from Johan Franzen's interview re: recent Babcock stories:

“But he is also a terrible human being, the worst person I have ever met. A bully who just came at people, it could be the cleaners in the arena in Detroit or whoever. He attacked people just because.”


Franzen: "I get chills when I think about. That thing against Nashville in the playoffs. It was rough, scary and shocking. But that was just one of a hundred things he did. Just the tip of the iceberg”

Franzen: "As a coach he is extremely accurate and prepared. He is very good at putting together a system and get everyone on it. That is his strong side.”

Franzen: ”He attacked other players first. The nice players. Those who does not say much. When they disappeared his energy went over to me and I got my run. It was verbal attacks, he said horrible things."

Franzen: "I was scared to be in the arena from 2011 and forward. I only focused on getting up in the morning.”

Franzen: ”He was a specialist on handling the media. He creates teams that are hard to bet, you can’t take that from him. But he makes his players very anxious, they are scared to make mistakes and his teams seldom make it past the first round”


Jesus. If Franzen isn't exaggerating(Chelios can certainly be guilty of that) and Holland knew this shit was going on? Fuuuuuck.

_________________
Thanks Chuck, E.L. and Harmy!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:39 pm 
Offline
Big in Japan
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:37 am
Posts: 10656
Location: 'Real City
Bosc wrote:
Franzen is going to town on Babcock.

https://twitter.com/RyanHanaWWP/status/ ... 9132459008

Quote:
Translated quotes from Johan Franzen's interview re: recent Babcock stories:

“But he is also a terrible human being, the worst person I have ever met. A bully who just came at people, it could be the cleaners in the arena in Detroit or whoever. He attacked people just because.”


Franzen: "I get chills when I think about. That thing against Nashville in the playoffs. It was rough, scary and shocking. But that was just one of a hundred things he did. Just the tip of the iceberg”

Franzen: "As a coach he is extremely accurate and prepared. He is very good at putting together a system and get everyone on it. That is his strong side.”

Franzen: ”He attacked other players first. The nice players. Those who does not say much. When they disappeared his energy went over to me and I got my run. It was verbal attacks, he said horrible things."

Franzen: "I was scared to be in the arena from 2011 and forward. I only focused on getting up in the morning.”

Franzen: ”He was a specialist on handling the media. He creates teams that are hard to bet, you can’t take that from him. But he makes his players very anxious, they are scared to make mistakes and his teams seldom make it past the first round”


Jesus. If Franzen isn't exaggerating(Chelios can certainly be guilty of that) and Holland knew this shit was going on? Fuuuuuck.


The thing about Holland and other GMs is up until two weeks ago, bullying behaviour from boobs like Babcock was considered the norm, just that no one talked about the particulars of that sort of abusive behaviour or rationalized how insane it sounds to outsiders. The entire structure of Hockey Canada is based on an ideal of coach and mentor who treats his gig like the drill sergeant from Full Metal Jacket. Up until two weeks ago, the Babcocks and Peters of this world weren't demonized, they were heroes! Holland is just one of many cogs in this incredibly fucked up way of thinking that has poisoned the game from the inside. That's why Don Cherry was on TV every week. It's why Canadian hockey teams don't win the Cup. It's why Good Boys like Crosby and McDavid shut their mouths and do nothing to promote the game, while a black hockey player like Subban gets treated like a pariah for showing any charisma. Hockey has held on to a way of thinking that has long been proven morally reprehensible.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:49 pm 
Offline
Un-Tenured Professor of Hockey
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:37 am
Posts: 21695
E.L. wrote:
The thing about Holland and other GMs is up until two weeks ago, bullying behaviour from boobs like Babcock was considered the norm, just that no one talked about the particulars of that sort of abusive behaviour or rationalized how insane it sounds to outsiders. The entire structure of Hockey Canada is based on an ideal of coach and mentor who treats his gig like the drill sergeant from Full Metal Jacket. Up until two weeks ago, the Babcocks and Peters of this world weren't demonized, they were heroes! Holland is just one of many cogs in this incredibly fucked up way of thinking that has poisoned the game from the inside. That's why Don Cherry was on TV every week. It's why Canadian hockey teams don't win the Cup. It's why Good Boys like Crosby and McDavid shut their mouths and do nothing to promote the game, while a black hockey player like Subban gets treated like a pariah for showing any charisma. Hockey has held on to a way of thinking that has long been proven morally reprehensible.


Well said. I'm still skeptical that any real change will occur (hey, lookit who's in charge of USA Hockey FFS) but it is encouraging that these stories are coming out and people are reacting to them properly, though there will always be a lunatic fringe of MAGA-type asswipes who think this is perfectly normal behavior.

Dan Carcillo has to be the most feared man in hockey circles right now because he's gathering testimonials and they've come rushing in.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:23 am 
Offline
The Bird is the Word, yet the Word ≥ the Bird

Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:40 pm
Posts: 2507
So the abusive behavior that exists within the world of hockey has therefore been enabled by power elites within the game using an iron curtain of sorts and the media for PR spin to protect systemic verbal and physical exploitation? This is totally disgusting if so and has quite frankly turned me off hockey. One assumes that a sport that actually allows physical abuse within the actual rules of the game probably had a day of reckoning coming.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:48 am 
Offline
Tattoo of the Post
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:54 pm
Posts: 7451
Thanks Bosc.

EL- well said.

The old school era is coming to an end soon, hopefully. As much as I enjoy watching an idiot like Torts crash and burn while he's coaching a division rival, these assholes still get jobs because "old school toughness" can pay dividends short term. The problem is the long term effects. And I know that old school folks who read that will yell about grown men making millions of dollars to play a game where face punching is legal shouldn't need safe spaces...

_________________
Posting your political views on social media is like sticking your head up your ass & whispering: You're just as likely to change someone's mind, and you'll always come out looking like a shithead.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:43 am 
Offline
OTP Clown
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:25 pm
Posts: 3715
So. When do we get to see St. Patrick crucified?

I'm stoked to watch that one happen.

You all know he's next.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group