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 Post subject: The Rebuild
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:24 am 
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This thread should have started near the end of last season, but Ken Holland had other ideas.

An excellent piece from Prashanth Iyer at Winging it in Motown, part 1 about what needs to be done starting with the expansion draft.

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2017/3 ... ack-part-1

Larkin doesn't need to be protected.

Quote:
Red Wings Expansion Draft Protection List
Who To Protect
Forwards Defensemen Goalie

Frans Nielsen (NMC) Mike Green Petr Mrazek

Henrik Zetterberg Xavier Ouellet

Andreas Athanasiou (RFA) Nick Jensen

Anthony Mantha
Tomas Tatar (RFA)
Gustav Nyquist
Riley Sheahan


Agreed with this list. The Wings will probably lose one of Sproul or Russo, barring some kind of protection trade of a draft pick.

He pushes the idea of trading picks with one of Helm or Abdelkader to Vegas, which I agree with.

My confidence level that Holland will do many of these moves is low. I have verious serious concerns that he will still protect Helm, Abdelkader, DDK and Kronwall out of loyalty, costing the team a more important piece for the future. Vegas likely won't take any of those guys, so the idea of protecting them only to lose a younger piece will hurt the org more than loyalty to those guys will help going forward.

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 Post subject: Re: The Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:50 pm 
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http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2017/3 ... to-rebuild

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"For some time now, some people have been bugging us to rebuild," Devellano said. "Kenny Holland and I together, as long as we thought we could keep the streak going, make the playoffs, we were going to continue to do that. We just felt we owed it to a lot of people to try to be in the top half of the league. But the truth of the matter is it finally bit us in the (rear) this year.

"The rebuild is on. You saw the first part of that at the (trade) deadline when Kenny wheeled four players for draft picks (the Red Wings have 11 selections in the 2017 draft and nine in 2018).


They buried their head in the sand rather than face the reality that last spring/summer should have been the year to start the rebuild. Any kind of rebuild has been set back a bunch of extra years by the bad contracts handed out to Abdelkader, DDK, Neilsen, Helm and Glendening.

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 Post subject: Re: The Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:34 pm 
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Kenny has been quoted to say that they won't trade the future to protect a player.

Well here's the thing Kenny. Perhaps you're not aware of this. You can trade some of those draft picks you acquired to get Vegas to agree to take a player, not just to get them to avoid taking a player.


Going to reiterate this point and add Glendening to the list of idiotic protection concerns.

Bosc wrote:
I have very serious concerns that he will still protect Helm, Abdelkader, DDK and Kronwall out of loyalty, costing the team a more important piece for the future. Vegas likely won't take any of those guys, so the idea of protecting them only to lose a younger piece will hurt the org more than loyalty to those guys will help going forward.

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 Post subject: Re: The Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:55 pm 
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The Wings ought to protect:

F: Zetterberg, Frans (NMC), Nyqvist, Sheahan, Mantha, Tatar, AA

D: Green, whoever

G: Ummm...

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 Post subject: Re: The Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:44 pm 
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E.L. wrote:
The Wings ought to protect:

F: Zetterberg, Frans (NMC), Nyqvist, Sheahan, Mantha, Tatar, AA

D: Green, whoever

G: Ummm...


Should be Green, Jensen, Ouellet. Mrazek.

D will probably be Green, Kronwall, DDK because loyalty for fucks sake. They aren't going to take DDK or Kronwall so there is no sense losing Jensen or Ouellet. If they want to take one of them, great!

Kenny will probably protect one of Abdelkader or Helm at the expense of Sheahan, who he wouldn't deal at the trade deadline, thus losing him for absolutely nothing in the expansion draft.

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 Post subject: Re: The Rebuild
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:27 pm 
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Well, it's official. Ken Holland doesn't know how to fucking do the expansion draft. He also doesn't fucking understand aging curves.

He protects Abdelkader, who absolutely nobody would trade much of anything of any value for. The guy scored 2 even strength goals in 64 games, is 30, and has 6 years left at $6.25 per year.

He protects DDK who while still reasonably young, is already showing signs of decline and nobody would trade much of anything for.

He protects his 33-year old goaltender who enjoyed his best season in 4 years, albeit for only 27 games, who has not been healthy enough to maintain any consistency in years. A player who he's been trying to trade but can't or hasn't gotten a return he likes. This is at the expense of a 25-year old on a reasonable contract who struggled last year after what would be considered 2 successful seasons for a young netminder.

Mrazek is exposed.

Sheahan, who he didn't fucking trade at the trade deadline because he didn't like the value, or he thought would provide more value, can now be lost for nothing.

Ouellet, while no all-star, is only 23 years old and pretty good, and cheap. He could be lost because Holland decided to protect someone who didn't need protecting because nobody would want his contract.


What in the actual fuck.

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 Post subject: Re: The Rebuild
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:50 pm 
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Howard might have the worst contract of all the players who were protected.

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 Post subject: Re: The Rebuild
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:55 pm 
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E.L. wrote:
Howard might have the worst contract of all the players who were protected.


The Wings, or the entire league? :?

Abdelkader's is worse. Howard only has 2 years left. Neilsen's at least has the excuse of being forced because NMC.

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 Post subject: Re: The Rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:12 pm 
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Good heavens, I know Wings fans are tired of the "Holland likes old guys" narrative, but...

Quote:
Red Wings one of several teams that have reached out about Dan Girardi. There's going to be a good market for the ex-Rangers defenseman.


Quote:
Coming off his first Stanley Cup, Ron Hainsey generating interest including Detroit. Good puck mover, eats minutes. Fun interview.


https://twitter.com/CraigCustance


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 Post subject: Re: The Rebuild
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:28 pm 
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It looks as if Ken Holland has not yet given up on the idea of rebuilding on the fly. The draft was of 11 players who'll have to spend years in the juniors/college/minors before they may be ready for the NHL The team is hard up against the salary cap and he could not get rid of any contracts through Vegas. To top that off I think he still believes the Red Wings can still compete for a bloody playoff spot. The man's gone daft.

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 Post subject: Re: The Rebuild
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:50 pm 
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RW wrote:
It looks as if Ken Holland has not yet given up on the idea of rebuilding on the fly. The draft was of 11 players who'll have to spend years in the juniors/college/minors before they may be ready for the NHL The team is hard up against the salary cap and he could not get rid of any contracts through Vegas. To top that off I think he still believes the Red Wings can still compete for a bloody playoff spot. The man's gone daft.
I heard Holland being interviewed somewhere recently -- he was loathed to even utter the word 'rebuild' for fear of seemingly alienating the Detroit fanbase. 'Develop while continue to compete for a playoff spot' - almost a direct quote. Sounds all too familiar.

It is a business afterall and I get it. These guys are under big pressure to fill the rink and profitable while entertaining, but it seems like there is a strong degree of denial that plagues many management teams to face the hard reality concerning their rosters and move towards a new future.


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 Post subject: Re: The Rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:01 am 
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Logical Progression wrote:
RW wrote:
It looks as if Ken Holland has not yet given up on the idea of rebuilding on the fly. The draft was of 11 players who'll have to spend years in the juniors/college/minors before they may be ready for the NHL The team is hard up against the salary cap and he could not get rid of any contracts through Vegas. To top that off I think he still believes the Red Wings can still compete for a bloody playoff spot. The man's gone daft.
I heard Holland being interviewed somewhere recently -- he was loathed to even utter the word 'rebuild' for fear of seemingly alienating the Detroit fanbase. 'Develop while continue to compete for a playoff spot' - almost a direct quote. Sounds all too familiar.

It is a business afterall and I get it. These guys are under big pressure to fill the rink and profitable while entertaining, but it seems like there is a strong degree of denial that plagues many management teams to face the hard reality concerning their rosters and move towards a new future.


Holland has mentioned a few times that a rebuild will be more painful than the fans expect. Well, it really sounds like Holland is projecting onto the Wings fans. He seems like the guy most unwilling to accept it.

26-year old Marcus Johansson, 24 goals and 58 points last season with a ~4.5M cap hit, gets moved in the Capitals cap crunch to the Devils for a 2nd and a 3rd rounder. Gee, if only Holland had some fucking draft picks to move for a player like that???

Ryan fucking Reaves netted a 1st-round draft pick.

Goalies are getting moved and signed all over the place and yet Holland cannot somehow find a taker for Mrazek?


I don't know what the fuck Ken Holland is doing right now, if anything. He's doing absolutely nothing. Except getting younger on defense signing a 33-year old to a 3-year contract. Albeit a pretty reasonable deal for a great skater, which is exactly what is needed. I could go into Brendan Smith here...but, well.

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 Post subject: Re: The Rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:02 pm 
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Please educate me, because I don't want to sell Holland short but was he around during the dark days of the 80s, or was it Devellano doing the heavy lifting back then?


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 Post subject: Re: The Rebuild
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:30 am 
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Pokecheque wrote:
Please educate me, because I don't want to sell Holland short but was he around during the dark days of the 80s, or was it Devellano doing the heavy lifting back then?


Jimmy D was hired to run the show in the summer of '82. There was a long, dark period in the 60's and 70's before the 80's. 2 playoff appearances in 17 seasons from 66-67 until 82-83, the first season under Jimmy D. 85-86 and 89-90 seasons were the only other years under Jimmy D where they missed the playoffs, and although they were still bad for some years in the 80's it wasn't as bad as earlier.

Holland was still in his playing days in the early 80's, including 3 games for the Wings.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdis ... p?pid=6433


Holland was named GM after the '97 Cup win.

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 Post subject: Re: The Rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:40 am 
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Tatar's arbitration numbers reported. Tatar's camp asking for 1-year at $5.3, Wings at $4.1.

I wouldn't mind seeing Tatar signed long-term at all.

At the same time, he could have significant trade value, and by the time this team should be competitive, he'd be past his prime

What I don't like is the idea of Kenny not signing him long-term because he wasn't able to move one of the single bad long-term contracts. If we lose him for nothing or Kenny doesn't get much of a return while we sit on the bad contracts, I'll lose it.

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 Post subject: Re: The Rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:21 pm 
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Interesting experiment here by Dom Luczyzyzyzczyczyczyn who attempts to quantify "star power" and its impact on success.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/artic ... in-the-cup

We always look at the NBA as the really star-powered league, but how much does that pertain to hockey? Obviously it's more team-driven based on the fact that there are more players on the ice than there are on the court at any given time. But it sure seems like one mega-talent can completely turn around a team's fortunes, as Connor McDavid demonstrated.

By this metric, Detroit's in trouble, as is the entire notion of "rebuilding on the fly." Unless they find yet another diamond in the rough as they did with Lidstrom, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg, it's hard to imagine they'll break through to contender status anytime soon.

On a totally unrelated side note...really? Conor Sheary is in the same echelon as Anze Kopitar? He's that good!?


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 Post subject: Re: The Rebuild
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:12 pm 
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Tatar signed to a perfectly reasonable 4-year deal at $5.3 mil per. Apparently the Wings didn't set out to destroy him in arbitration, just compared numbers to similar players/deals.

He's young enough and the term is short enough that it could be moved if need be. Now the Wings need to move someone in order to make room for Athanasiou. Holland missed his chance to deal some excess draft picks to move a bad contract.

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 Post subject: Re: The Rebuild
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:41 am 
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The crickets are loud as fuck right now.

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 Post subject: Re: The Rebuild
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:33 am 
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Teams should be offer sheeting the hell outta Detroit next year


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 Post subject: Re: The Rebuild
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:41 am 
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AA is threatening to bolt for the KHL

https://sports.yahoo.com/red-wings-andr ... soc_trk=tw

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