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 Post subject: Gary Roberts HHOF?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:13 pm 
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1224 Games
910 points
438 G 472 Assists
2560 PIMS

https://www.hhof.com/LegendsOfHockey/js ... ayer=11386

I don't know about this one. I am a little biased towards Gary.....he was a blue collar type of player that showed hard work could keep you in the league even after his neck injury. What he didn't have in natural talent he did have in work ethic and I don't think that should receive any less attention.

There are definitely others that need to get in first but if there is a slow year. Consideration at some point, or no consideration?

There's room in 2019 after Lecavalier, possibly Brindamour and geez....let in JR already. Cujo also needs a call.

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 Post subject: Re: Gary Roberts HHOF?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:19 pm 
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No on Roberts and JR. Good players for a while in a high-scoring era getting the counting stats, but were never anywhere close to the best at their position, let alone in the league. Kind of like Ciccarelli but didn't approach 600 goals and quite frankly I don't Dino should be in there either.

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 Post subject: Re: Gary Roberts HHOF?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:38 pm 
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Roberts was a great player but he falls into the Trevor Linden camp for me. Beloved by his team and fans, incredible work ethic, heart type guy, consistent producer, but not quite elite enough to get the nod for Hall.


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 Post subject: Re: Gary Roberts HHOF?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:45 pm 
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JR was pretty awesome during the early 90's with the Hawks. I think a lot of the guys in this era got screwed career wise with both lockouts (if they played long enough like JR). I'd disagree about Dino...he played 19 years in the league, a 2 time 50 goal scorer and 40 goals almost 9 times in his career. Undrafted as well. Now the argument could be made for Neely or Lindros. Eh maybe I am getting older and softer but I do see that...unlike Neely Roberts wasn't even front and center while on the team...

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 Post subject: Re: Gary Roberts HHOF?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:47 pm 
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Logical Progression wrote:
Roberts was a great player but he falls into the Trevor Linden camp for me. Beloved by his team and fans, incredible work ethic, heart type guy, consistent producer, but not quite elite enough to get the nod for Hall.


That's a great comparison. Appreciate that. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Gary Roberts HHOF?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:01 pm 
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harmfuljays wrote:
JR was pretty awesome during the early 90's with the Hawks. I think a lot of the guys in this era got screwed career wise with both lockouts (if they played long enough like JR). I'd disagree about Dino...he played 19 years in the league, a 2 time 50 goal scorer and 40 goals almost 9 times in his career. Undrafted as well. Now the argument could be made for Neely or Lindros. Eh maybe I am getting older and softer but I do see that...unlike Neely Roberts wasn't even front and center while on the team...


Dino had longevity for sure, but those numbers were put up during a really high-scoring era. Put it this way. He only had two top-10 finishes in both goals and points. JR the same. Roberts only a single top-10 goal appearance.

Neely and Lindros(and Forsberg), while being injured a lot, were dominant for multiple seasons while they were on the ice. Neely with 4 top-10 goal finishes and 4 2nd-team all stars. Lindros 4 top-10 goals, 3 top-10 assist and points including a tie for the top in his Hart season. Their peaks were greater than anything Dino, Roberts or JR approached.

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 Post subject: Re: Gary Roberts HHOF?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:15 pm 
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This guy gets in first

1048 games
455 goals
633 assists
1088 points

and he had to battle demons to do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Gary Roberts HHOF?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:48 pm 
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Didn't Pierre Turgeon put up better numbers?

I dunno...I try to stay away from these debates because it's simply way above my pay grade. I had no problem with them putting Paul Kariya last go-around, but that sparked quite a bit of hand-wringing.

I gotta be honest, I never considered Big Gary an "elite" talent, same with Roenick, and I like both players.


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 Post subject: Re: Gary Roberts HHOF?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:18 pm 
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Fogghorn wrote:
This guy gets in first

1048 games
455 goals
633 assists
1088 points

and he had to battle demons to do it.



I know (he's my favorite Flame)....but Theo burned so many damn bridges its going to be a while. I don't even think he's allowed in the Garden yet much less the Hall.

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 Post subject: Re: Gary Roberts HHOF?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:23 pm 
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Pokecheque wrote:
Didn't Pierre Turgeon put up better numbers?





Good Call Professor!

1,294 515 812 1,327 452

Eghad 1327 points

He also lives in Cherry Hills Colorado which I have never heard of. I had to look it up and now I know why I've never heard of it. It takes $200K plus a year to live there.

Here's a good list with 1000 point getters

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N ... 000_points


Well on that note do the Sedin twins get in?

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 Post subject: Re: Gary Roberts HHOF?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:25 pm 
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Bosc wrote:
harmfuljays wrote:
JR was pretty awesome during the early 90's with the Hawks. I think a lot of the guys in this era got screwed career wise with both lockouts (if they played long enough like JR). I'd disagree about Dino...he played 19 years in the league, a 2 time 50 goal scorer and 40 goals almost 9 times in his career. Undrafted as well. Now the argument could be made for Neely or Lindros. Eh maybe I am getting older and softer but I do see that...unlike Neely Roberts wasn't even front and center while on the team...


Dino had longevity for sure, but those numbers were put up during a really high-scoring era. Put it this way. He only had two top-10 finishes in both goals and points. JR the same. Roberts only a single top-10 goal appearance.

Neely and Lindros(and Forsberg), while being injured a lot, were dominant for multiple seasons while they were on the ice. Neely with 4 top-10 goal finishes and 4 2nd-team all stars. Lindros 4 top-10 goals, 3 top-10 assist and points including a tie for the top in his Hart season. Their peaks were greater than anything Dino, Roberts or JR approached.


I can understand this approach. Thanks for pointing this out!

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 Post subject: Re: Gary Roberts HHOF?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:57 pm 
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The thing about Dino is he crossed the arbitrary and mythical 600 goal barrier. Now that he and Andreychuk are in, it's clear 600 goals means you're a lock for the hall.

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 Post subject: Re: Gary Roberts HHOF?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:06 pm 
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E.L. wrote:
The thing about Dino is he crossed the arbitrary and mythical 600 goal barrier. Now that he and Andreychuk are in, it's clear 600 goals means you're a lock for the hall.


You are absolutely correct! No one that scores 600 goals is out of the hall....that's a lot of damn goals!

I had no idea Joe Thornton is the 15th leading scorer in league history......what a quietly beautiful career!

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 Post subject: Re: Gary Roberts HHOF?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:20 pm 
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harmfuljays wrote:
Pokecheque wrote:
Didn't Pierre Turgeon put up better numbers?





Good Call Professor!

1,294 515 812 1,327 452

Eghad 1327 points

He also lives in Cherry Hills Colorado which I have never heard of. I had to look it up and now I know why I've never heard of it. It takes $200K plus a year to live there.

Here's a good list with 1000 point getters

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N ... 000_points


Well on that note do the Sedin twins get in?


Sedin's are borderline. I'd guess their character/goodwill gets them in (opposite of Theo) plus the Hart, Lindsay and Art Ross for each is enough to just push them over the line. But they definitely should have to wait a few years for it to happen and if it doesn't happen I'll be okay with that as well. Like I said pretty borderline.


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 Post subject: Re: Gary Roberts HHOF?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:48 pm 
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Fogghorn wrote:
harmfuljays wrote:
Pokecheque wrote:
Didn't Pierre Turgeon put up better numbers?

Good Call Professor!

1,294 515 812 1,327 452

Eghad 1327 points

He also lives in Cherry Hills Colorado which I have never heard of. I had to look it up and now I know why I've never heard of it. It takes $200K plus a year to live there.

Here's a good list with 1000 point getters

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N ... 000_points

Well on that note do the Sedin twins get in?
Sedin's are borderline. I'd guess their character/goodwill gets them in (opposite of Theo) plus the Hart, Lindsay and Art Ross for each is enough to just push them over the line. But they definitely should have to wait a few years for it to happen and if it doesn't happen I'll be okay with that as well. Like I said pretty borderline.
Agree. Their international play should also just get them in, but I could imagine a scenario whereby they just miss.

Geez, Mike Bossy's output given so few games played is impressive - almost got to 600 goals in under 800 games. Shame about the back problems. Never knew about his alleged rift with Gretz.

Quote:
Bossy has harboured some animosity towards Wayne Gretzky and the Edmonton Oilers, stating that the Islanders got little recognition for their dynasty (1980–83) compared to the Canadiens (1976–79) or Oilers (1984–90). Bossy complained "I do a lot of promoting for how good [the Islanders] were...We never got one millionth of the recognition we should. We had a very low-key organization. They didn't want guys doing too much, because they thought the hockey might suffer. People don't talk about us in the first mention of great teams." [6] During Gretzky's interview with the New York Post in 1993, he praised Bossy as the best right-winger ever to play, saying that their scoring totals would have been even higher if the two had played together. (They nearly did; in the 1977 WHA Amateur Draft, Bossy was selected by the Indianapolis Racers, who one year later would become Gretzky's first pro team.) Bossy's response in the Post was not complimentary, as he pointed out that their playing styles were different, and also said that Trottier was the best centre in hockey. [7] Gretzky did not comment on that at the time; however, years later in his autobiography he reiterated that Bossy was a great player, but "I sure wouldn't want to ride in a cab with that guy."


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 Post subject: Re: Gary Roberts HHOF?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:11 am 
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harmfuljays wrote:
Good Call Professor!

1,294 515 812 1,327 452

Eghad 1327 points

He also lives in Cherry Hills Colorado which I have never heard of. I had to look it up and now I know why I've never heard of it. It takes $200K plus a year to live there.


When me and the wife still lived in Denver we lived right across the street from Cherry Hills. We walked our dogs around that neighborhood from time to time just to marvel at some of the houses in there.

Turgeon is often brought up as the current "best player not in there." I feel like if you're gonna put a guy like Gary in there, you should put a guy like Pierre in there first, just my humble opinion. I get that there's a slippery slope and what not though.


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 Post subject: Re: Gary Roberts HHOF?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:54 am 
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Fogghorn wrote:
harmfuljays wrote:
Pokecheque wrote:
Didn't Pierre Turgeon put up better numbers?





Good Call Professor!

1,294 515 812 1,327 452

Eghad 1327 points

He also lives in Cherry Hills Colorado which I have never heard of. I had to look it up and now I know why I've never heard of it. It takes $200K plus a year to live there.

Here's a good list with 1000 point getters

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N ... 000_points


Well on that note do the Sedin twins get in?


Sedin's are borderline. I'd guess their character/goodwill gets them in (opposite of Theo) plus the Hart, Lindsay and Art Ross for each is enough to just push them over the line. But they definitely should have to wait a few years for it to happen and if it doesn't happen I'll be okay with that as well. Like I said pretty borderline.


Daniel just missed on the Hart (that Corey Perry has one while neither Lidstrom or Datsyuk does is a fucking hockey crime), but I think they have longevity and peak to get in. Henrik probably has the better case than Daniel(1 top-10 G, 2 top-10 A + P), but I think they're both strong enough to get in.

Henrik is also the only 2-time winner of the Clancy trophy!

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