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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:49 am 
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With Makar racking up an obscene number of points in the early season, he seemed like a shoo in to win the Calder. Then he lost 10 games to injury opening the door a bit and Hughes has just continued to improve throughout the season shoving the door open the rest of the way.

Both are incredibly deserving. Both are projecting to be 63 point guys at the end of the season if they continue at their current points per game pace. Only 9 rookie defencemen have ever surpassed 60 points in a season. And none in nearly a generation. Myers and Ekblad won the Calder with 37 and 39 points respectively. That really is indicative of how freakishly good these two players are and that they are both rookies in the same season is coincidentally outrageous.

Having said that, the thread is about debating who deserves it more. My guess is Makar will get it, his larger ppg should capture voters attention as most wont look deeper than that. However Hughes is the greater analytics darling with lead indicators showing him to be as exceptional defensively as he is offensively. And what sways me is how much better he makes the Canucks. Makar is surrounded by talent on the Av's, Hughes not so much. I'd even argue that the Canucks probably wouldn't make the playoffs without him and that he has been every bit as valuable to the team as Markstrom has been this year.

Readings from the past couple months comparing the two. From oldest to newest

https://canucksarmy.com/2019/12/09/what ... he-calder/

https://www.si.com/nhl/2020/02/01/canuc ... rophy-race

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/286 ... gain-steam

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/tru ... nn-hughes/

https://www.straight.com/news/1358451/c ... g-top-spot

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:06 pm 
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Thanks for the great breakdown Foggy.

Naturally, i am pulling for Hughes but this is Makar's trophy to lose. They are nearly tied in points with Makar playing 10 less games, so it stands to reason that Hughes would need to win the rookie scoring race by 10+ points to lock it down and that seems unlikely. Sure there are other factors, like value to respective team versus team talent, offensive and defensive contribution and minutes played per game. But they always seem to go conservative on the big awards in relation to the stats.

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What the raw offensive numbers fail to take into account, though, is the impact either player has actually had on tilting the ice in the favor of their respective clubs, and that might be where Hughes makes up the most ground on Makar and has potential to start to swing some voters in the back half of the campaign.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:11 pm 
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What blows me away about these two is that their rookie years are probably stronger than that of any rookie since Evengi Malkin in 2007. Obviously McDavid without the 3 month injury would have been better though. Having said that I think if they stay healthy, they project to have better rookie years than that of Kane, Mathews, MacKinnon. That's pretty damn rarefied air they're both breathing. It will be a real shame that one of them will have to lose.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:59 pm 
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Hughes definitely has the edge defensively, Makar might have the edge in terms of skating and offense. Astounding talents we're witnessing here, and they're not even in their "prime" years.

All that said, Makar is definitely enjoying an edge because he has more talent around him (though I'd argue Hughes has a far superior defensive partner) and he was on a percentage-driven shooting run. He was at 20% or something insane before the injury and I think he was close to that afterwards until recently. Avs as a whole are coming back to earth, so Makar doesn't seem quite as automatic as he was.

Conversely, the stats, at least I've been told, suggest that Hughes has been a little snakebitten in terms of his shooting, which is pretty crazy considering how good he's looked thus far. Imagine if he starts getting a little lucky, he'll go on a tear. I think overall, Hughes is better and it doesn't bother me in the slightest--it's like trying to debate between prime Keith and prime Niedermayer--what's astounding to me is that Hughes is making everyone who took a player before him, including the Sabres and Rasmus Dahlin, look really bad right now.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:36 pm 
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I'm hoping Makar gets it so that Hughes can't use that for contract negotiations next summer...


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:54 pm 
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the Cunning Linguist wrote:
I'm hoping Makar gets it so that Hughes can't use that for contract negotiations next summer...


Jimmy Boy's gonna be paying him a lot of money regardless.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:06 pm 
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Pokecheque wrote:
the Cunning Linguist wrote:
I'm hoping Makar gets it so that Hughes can't use that for contract negotiations next summer...


Jimmy Boy's gonna be paying him a lot of money regardless.

I'm optimistic he gets shit canned before then...


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:14 am 
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the Cunning Linguist wrote:
I'm optimistic he gets shit canned before then...


You might be the only one.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:24 am 
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Hughes now has 40 assists and is only the 13th NHL rookie to reach this feat. He has entered uncharted waters when it comes to games played after only playing a college schedule at Michigan. Somehow he is getting better as the season grows. He is fourth in defencemen scoring, first in rookie scoring and first in defencemen scoring since the All-Star break.


Not sure which of those stats is most impressive but he just keeps getting better, shouldn't be possible but he is.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:35 am 
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Hughes burst onto the season with a wildly impressive season and helped push the Canucks on a 17-game playoff run. In the pandemic-shortened regular season, Hughes scored eight goals and 53 points in 68 games.

This year he became the third rearguard since 1943-44 to top all rookies in scoring — the only other two being Brian Leetch in 1988-89 and Bobby Orr in 1966-67. Those 53 points, too, were the most by any rookie defenceman since 1991-92 when Nick Lindstrom scored 60 in 80 games with Detroit.


When the comparables are Orr; Leetch and Lindstrom somethings amiss if there is no win.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:17 am 
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https://www.nhl.com/news/colorado-defen ... -319121736

Makar wins 116 to 53. Either way, you've got a franchise player, and look at what Miro is doing in Dallas...

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:32 pm 
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I would've been okay with this one either way. I'm more irritated about Nate missing out on the Hart than anything else.

What an amazing generation of talents we get to watch for the next decade or so. And we haven't even talked about Dahlin, who could find his way back into the conversation, but I have my doubts.


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